Debbie:
Hey Sheryl, thank you for joining me on the show.

Sheryl Stoller:
I’m so delighted to be here, Debbie.

Debbie:
I’m just gonna say for listeners too, we’ve known each other for many years get to work together and meet regularly. You’re part of the Differently Wired Club coaching community and you support parents so beautifully there. And so just to kind of set us up, you emailed me.
the weekend as I was working on another episode and you kind of shared something that you were working on and that came up for you a pattern that you’ve been noticing and it really piqued my interest and also really resonated. So kind of being really mysterious But I’m gonna ask you would you kind of share with the listeners what you shared with me and why why you wanted to reach out to me about it in the first place.

Sheryl Stoller:
Yeah, I think it’s about fear. Fear, which comes out in terms of anxiety, it comes out in other ways. I’m part of my free webinar on unhooking from anxiety. I summarized what’s been going on for clients. And how I would summarize it is, in essence, the kids are saying, don’t you dare be afraid for me because if my own parent is afraid, what chance do I have? And that pattern across my clients over the years, 16 years of coaching plus friends and my, it’s just so foundational. And the dilemma is we are innately wired to have fear, to protect our offspring, to make sure they survive. And so it feels like it’s asking the impossible. is it’s not. It’s the best way we can equip them is to deal with our fear outside of the moments, all the resources we can bring to bear on it, so that in the moment they feel our confidence that this is just a phase. Not a phase, this is a process.

Debbie:
So I think what struck me so much in the note that you sent to me that, you know, we work with parents, right, all the time, and we talk about fear a lot. I talk about fear a lot in the TIL community as well. And, of course we recognize our own fear can kind of subconsciously seep into our kids and impact how we show up with them and the language we use and that they are really attuned to us. there’s something in the way that you shared this perspective of a young person, not just kind of feeling it, but calling a parent out like, you’re scaring me. That really kind of shook me, actually.

Sheryl Stoller:
And that scaring me, the child being scared by the parent, is such an important moment to catch because that is the last thing parents want to do. We don’t want to scare our kids with our fear for them. to be wise and discerning. We don’t want them to be afraid of living and afraid of life when we can understand how to meet our anxiety, so human, zoom out and put it in perspective and decide, is this real and eminent, here present danger, that I have to do something really dramatic about right now? Or is this something that I can deal with? They’re just having a moment where their nervous system is using their imagination. And a lot of our kids, especially your listeners, our listeners, our imagination, it’s one of those areas of strength goes into overdrive. And we live the imaginational in our bodies as if it’s happening. So the what-ifs, so we’re very creative about potential ways things could go south. And we’re very good at living it in our body as if that is the reality. And “right sizing” that, a term of Tamar Chansky, right sizing our imagination has done us. seeing their current level of skill or lack of skill as constant throughout their lives. My God, they’re never gonna be able to do X, Y, and Z and live a wonderful life. So bringing it back to using the imagination for, wow, how can I resource myself right now? And creative about that, like how can I bridge to actually I am okay?

Debbie:
Yeah. I also want to acknowledge that a lot of our kids kind of share with us their innermost fears and worries. Sometimes we are the dumping ground for all the noise in their head. And so that has been, and I’m very transparent about this with listeners, that’s been my ongoing work is not jumping into the pool with my kiddo and just kind of being that calm non-anxious presence while I’m taking all this stuff in. And I’m just wondering, you know, for parents who resonate with that experience and find themselves being really like sparked or, you know, their own nervous system escalating because of what their kid is saying or doing. Do you have any strategies? Like, what do you recommend parents do in that moment to kind of really separate out? This is my kid’s stuff and I can be over here and be this kind of steady presence.

Sheryl Stoller:
First of all, it’s stuff outside of the moment, but I don’t know if people can hear me smiling and kind of laughing to myself. It’s like, they’re having a great bowel movement. Like I talk about emotional digestive system. It’s like, great, they’re getting it out of their system and finding places where we can get it out of our system and really allow ourselves, mean, because we’re human, we’re going to feel it as if it’s real as well. So part of us is living it, but part of us learning the skill, the practice of being aware, catching ourselves early. I’m headed into that survival mode, feared place. I’m gonna zoom out and part of us might still go there. But when part of us sees it as a thing we’re going through, it loses its power, it becomes part of the process. And I often think about this book that I have, Metamorphous, where it’s seeing the butterfly. this is them in the cocoon. This is them disintegrating as part of the process. Don’t want to interrupt that. Don’t want to stop that. So it’s a sense of self and sense of confidence that this is the necessary part of process.

Debbie:
I really like that. And I like that reframe. Great they’re getting it out of their system. Like just saying that feels really great. And let’s talk about, I’m gonna spend a little bit of time talking about exactly how parents can kind of find more peace in this process. But let’s talk about for our listeners who are genuinely afraid, like because of what’s going on with their kids. It’s more than just, you know, being vomited on or dumped on with the kids kind of innermost thoughts, but it’s some really serious hard stuff we’re genuinely afraid for our child’s future. And what this is going to look like and if they’re going to have a life that feels meaningful to them.

Sheryl Stoller:
Yeah, and I think that part of the process is truly about two things, we cannot survive without others. I mean, we die without others, literally. So knowing that we reach out and find the places where it’s okay to be this the place where we can feel it deeply without, because part of, I remember at some point in my own body, feeling like my body would explode if I let myself actually feel what I was feeling. And it really is important to find the safe harbors where we can feel that, I mean, the club truly is a place and each one of our meetings that we have and we create the space for each other and for all of the parents, it’s beautiful because it works that way. so that’s number one. The fears are real. And… also, what’s real is the zoomed out So helping people know that they can say to their kids, I understand how this is scary. And time has proven over and over again, it won’t always be this way. And we forget that for ourselves. And they need that. They need us to remember everything is impermanent.

Debbie:
Yeah. Would you mind, you know, whatever you’re comfortable sharing, you know, your own personal, you know, coming to a place where you were able to really know that, that that’s true, that you were able to really step into that zoomed out perspective and how has that kind of shifted your experience as a parent?

Sheryl Stoller:
It shifted everything. I mean, there’s places that my brain’s going right now, somatically, my body. When I was able to switch here now, my body, and I’m gonna make sure that in the future, I can look back and say, I did what was possible for me. So in my body, realizing, and many of our listeners, a highly sensitive person since And that highly sensitive, I need more intense forms of resources. to not resist that, need to tap into forces that are outside of me that I can bring into me. I know earth, the magnetic field. I mean, the things that are constant that we can rely on that are, it’s nature. I’m just a little tiny organism. So when I remember I’m this little, little nothing in essence. I am just a micron in this universe. That helps me tremendously say this is just stuff electricity going on in my brain and chemistry and I’m going to give it a chance as I said with the emotional digestive system to come out of my body and know that I optimize this moment by realizing that. I optimize this by thinking there’s positive potential in this second. And I would look at this thing that I wrote to myself, what is the positive potential of this, so in any moment that I’m knowing there’s something in this that’s going to pivot me and take me on a whole different trajectory, then, if I didn’t do that. So that is a huge part of my journey. To the degree that at some points like bring it bring it on, you know, because that’s when I have a chance to have influence.

Debbie:
Yeah, and I’m just gonna let listeners know, you joined me years ago for a conversation on the show about getting grounded. And as you’re talking, again, that’s what this work is. And I love how you really just go very deep and very in this moment. Every time I lay on the ground, like flat when I’m feeling anxious, I’m like, Cheryl would be so happy right now, because I’m like, being supported by the earth. So, but these things really matter, especially when we are so worried and we don’t want to kind of jump into the pool with our kids and our kids need us to be that calm presence for them. You know, I was thinking, I can’t remember who it was, someone I had on the show, it might have been Ned Johnson and I were talking about, you know, when a kid is really, really struggling and not doing well, and it doesn’t have a lot of hope, right, for their life, for the future.

You know, often in our attempts to protect them, to protect ourselves, we might want to minimize what they’re going through. We might want to move past it or convince them that things aren’t that bad. And, you know, there’s also a lot of power and strength in validating and empathizing. This is really hard. You’re really struggling right now. And then us saying, I’m holding out hope that you’re going to figure this out. I believe that there’s a path forward and I’m going to stay with you until we figure it out. You know, just kind of being that assured presence for our child. And so I wanted to offer that for listeners. And I’m wondering if you have any other kind of messages or reframes that parents could kind of think about when they’re engaging with a child who’s really struggling and they want to be sure that they’re not adding to that.

Sheryl Stoller:
Absolutely. The idea of being there with compassion and empathy and providing them confidence that we have confidence in them And the statements of I can only imagine how hard this is for you. So it’s validating. It’s not assuming that I get exactly how you feel. Acknowledging their autonomy is huge. And I have confidence that you’re going to find your way forward. You’re going to let yourself feel you’re going to know what to do. And I’m here as you need. And I also want to say that building opportunities for a history of success and our being aware and sort of storing in our brain wins, their something was really challenging and somehow they got through it. So that’s like, I wonder how you got yourself through X can be said sort of later when they’ve calmed down. wonder and walk out of the room. They don’t even need to answer you. What we did was plant a seed in their brain that they’ve got it all inside of them. They can do this. And doing whatever we need to do outside of the moments, getting the resources that you need to remember that actually not only they have already inside of it, you have inside of your parents what you need. It’s already there.

Debbie:
And if I can just kind of, you know, I don’t know if summarize is the right word, but just to say that this is a process. And I think you and I both, you know, I’ve got a 21 year old, you’ve got kids a little bit older than mine. And so we’re kind of in a different phase. And I think what I learned from you, and what we talk a lot about is not reaching, you know, an end destination. This is we’re always in the work, we’re always learning and growing, we’re always showing up and leaning into, you know, how do we navigate this moment? And so, you know, I love the micro moments that you talked about, the reminder about community, which is so the common humanity piece, which, you know, we’ve been talking about self-compassion a lot, that common humanity that we are just all little, you know, sparks of energy this, you know, vast universe, just knowing we’re in it and we just keep showing up and we take care of ourselves the best we can and we just kind of continue doing That’s what this actually looks like. of all, thank you for out to me about this particular topic, because I just love getting to explore this stuff with you. And also, you are such a gift to our community. And I would love if you could just also make sure listeners know where to find you. Because you, in addition to supporting the Differently Wired Club, you’re also, you work with families. So where can people connect with you?

Sheryl Stoller:
Well, thank you. The easiest thing would be to go to StollerParentCoaching.org and Stoller is spelt like holler. So it’s S-T-O-L-L-E-R, parentcoaching.org. And you’ll find the links to many things, the freebies and workshops that I’m doing on unhooking from anxiety and I’m happy to help privately as well. So however you need and you can also come join us in the differently wired community as it’s a wonderful, wonderful place. And so that’s me.

Debbie:
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Cheryl, so much. really appreciated this and listeners, I hope this was helpful and we’re sending big hugs and lots of deep breaths out to all of you.

Sheryl Stoller:
Absolutely. Thank you, Debbie. Thank you, everyone.