Parent Coach Margaret Webb on Archetypes and the Hero’s Journey in Parenting

Debbie: 

Of course we can edit this out so it doesn’t even matter. Okay. And we will. Well, hello Margaret Webb. Welcome back to the Tilt Parenting podcast.

Margaret Webb:

Hello, I’m so excited to be back.

Debbie: 

It’s been a little while since you have been here. In the early years, you were a very frequent guest. And then I see you all the time through the differently wired club. And so we’re always in conversation, but I’m like, yeah, it’s been a while. So, um, there are probably listeners who aren’t familiar with you, who may not have gone back into the archives and listened to those gold nugget of episodes. People, if you haven’t listened to them, they’ll be in the show notes, definitely go back and check them out. But Margaret, would you kind of in your own words, just take a few minutes and tell us what you’ve been up to and about the work that you love to do in the world. And I know that you love to do it, so I can say that, but just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Margaret Webb:

So I am a mom to a now 20 year old son who is autistic and like my greatest teacher and he just is like the most amazing person ever for me but because of him I’ve gone on to become a parenting coach for other people who are on this journey as well. And so it’s my favorite thing to do to support other parents. Cause if you can imagine 20 years ago, we didn’t have the resources that we have now. We didn’t have the knowledge that we have now. And so it’s like my life’s joy to be able to support parents in feeling more confident and to feel just like they’re not alone on this journey. So I do a lot of parent coaching. I’m so grateful to be part of the Differently Wired Club and be one of the parent coaches for that because that’s like, it’s so fun to be able to get on and just like see whatever anybody is up to and try my best to support them. So yeah, and writing a book.

Debbie: 

Awesome. And writing a book, which brings us to this conversation. Well, and I just want to say too that, you know, if you are a long time listener, you know that when I mentioned Margaret, it’s with a lot of love and reverence for the work that you do. You were my parent coach and helped me through some of the most challenging phases, eras of my own parenting journey. I still periodically send you an SOS text like, hey, have time to jump on a quick call. So I’m immensely grateful for you and you are one of the wisest people that I know. I know that this book that we’re going to be talking about today has been in you for a very, very long time. I’ve been so excited for you to give birth to it and to share this deep wisdom that you have with us, with the rest of the world. So I just wanted to say that upfront. I’m just so excited that you’re getting these resources and these tools out into the world. So your book is called A Hero’s Journey in Parenting, Parenting the Child You Didn’t Expect While You Were Expecting. So I would love as a way to kind of get into it, if you could talk a little bit about the lens through which you approach your work in helping parents and how that has really informed the book. Because you really do, I think, come to this whole conversation of supporting parents from a completely unique and fresh perspective. So can you talk to us a little bit about that.

Margaret Webb:

Yeah, when I was thinking, you know, back years ago, you talk about like this book being in the process of being developed for many years, and it was, and I had been teaching a class called Parenting the Child You Didn’t Expect While You Were Expecting. And I started writing a book just based on what I was teaching. And had an interesting conversation with my husband where he was like, okay, you know, that’s great, but like, where’s the story? And I took a step back and realized that what we all go through as parents, regardless of what our journeys are, is we go through a hero’s journey in parenting. And there are thresholds that are crossed all of the time that, you know, we might not be necessarily asking for or wanting. And when I took that step back and realized, like, you know, looked at my journey in parenting, realized that there were a number of, just like in any hero’s journey, like, you know, I think of Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, you know, just those kinds of movies that are really big hero’s journey movies. It’s like there are teachers, there are mentors, there are tools that are presented to support the main characters in, you know, in kind of realizing who they are meant to be on this earth. And I realized, wow, like I had been presented many teachers, many mentors. I was a teacher and so I have an education background that I could bring to my experience. I did Martha Beck’s Life Coach training and so I had that to pull from and then I did a nature-based coach training. So there were tools that I could pull from that and then I did an Equus coach training. And so like I realized, wow, I had all these tools from these people. And when I started to apply them to parenting, it changed everything for me. And I realized, wow, like I’ve got this unique perspective or what I would hope to be a unique perspective on how to approach parenting a child who, you know, is not what I expected while I was expecting. And I say that he is the most amazing person ever. And he is the greatest teacher that I have, but like I expected to have, you know, to be sitting at soccer games and, you know, sitting in the stands and cheering him on. And that’s not what our journey has been. It’s been very different. And so crossing that threshold into this unknown of parenting has been, really, it rocked my world. And realizing that I, you know, if I could accept the tools and the, you know, the teachings of the things that I was learning, it would really help me to be the mom that he needed me to be. Not the mom that I expected to be, but the mom he needed me to be.

Debbie: 

Yeah. Yeah, you describe that so well. And what’s coming up for me too, and maybe is a nice thing to clarify or just kind of talk about at the beginning of this conversation is that there’s also this kind of stereotypical autism mom, you know, that kind of makes their kids, you know, journey their identity. And so and you’re using this kind of hero language, but that’s not what we’re talking about. Can you kind of explain the distinction here.

Margaret Webb:

Yes, and so part of my book describes archetypes. And archetypes are a huge part of a hero’s journey. And so I describe four different archetypes. There’s the queen or the king or the elder, the monarch. There’s the child, there’s the warrior, and then there’s a community builder or a teacher or a magician. And I’m not an archetype expert by any means. I just share what, like how I approach things. So, but typically what happens is parents go into warrior mode and it’s like, oh, I got to fix this. I got to, I got to like put all of my energy into that. And I’ve got to take care of that. Like take care of whatever is causing this tension in our life. And that leads to exhaustion, it leads to frustration, it leads to tension. There’s a place for the warrior, but it’s, I think at some point the warrior needs to take over at first, because it’s like, okay, you get a diagnosis, there are things that need to happen, maybe therapy sessions, whatever, but to get stuck in that and to have that as your identity leads to you know, some things where you’re not getting the full perspective of what’s actually possible and what’s actually going on for not only your child’s life, but for your life. And I think that’s, it’s such a powerful thing to realize like, okay, yep, I’m in warrior mode. Um, and that’s fine, but there are other archetypes that can be super helpful in meeting our child’s needs, meeting our needs in order to create, you know, a happier life for everybody.

Debbie: 

Yeah. And just thinking about that term hero, I think we can think superhero victory. And that again, it’s not what we’re talking about. When you are looking at the hero’s journey, it really is about the journey, the transformation that we as parents are navigating for our own personal growth, personal development, well-being. Am I getting that right?

Margaret Webb:

Absolutely, it’s not about being a hero in that you’ve overcome whatever diagnosis or whoever your child is. It’s not about that at all. It’s about taking care of ourselves and realizing, you know what? Like this is what I’m learning. Like the hero for me is about learning what our kids are here to teach us and going with that and realizing, wow, like they’re here to teach me this and I can be a hero in that I’m learning that I need to bring more joy into my life, or that I need to be mindful of what I call like shadow forces and hindering forces that kind of creep in to our lives as parents and to, you know, as a hero to kind of combat those.

Debbie: 

Yeah. So you talked about archetypes a little bit. And again, you said I’m not an expert on archetypes. But could you talk a little bit more about even what an archetype is? How are they typically used? And why do you feel they’re so effective? Why have they been something that’s really pulled you in and really kind of helped you navigate your own parenting journey and present this framework for the rest of us.

Margaret Webb:

Yeah, so I think they’re super helpful because they are characters and I can identify, and it’s an opportunity for me to kind of pull myself out of whatever is going on in the here and now and to say, oh, okay, wait, what would my queen say? Or if I was an elder or a monarch, like what would, you know, they’re looking at this situation, what would they say? If I’m approaching something from a child archetype perspective, it would be all about curiosity and how can I play with this? Not in a childlike manner, but like, okay, what are the parts and pieces that I can play with? And the warrior, okay, the warrior’s great at getting details done and taking care of stuff and not, and if they’re not given a mission, they will create a mission for themselves. So they, you know. They, yes. Yes. So it’s important to, you know, they’re like, I don’t want to give them a bad rap, but like keeping them in check and making sure that they don’t have the keys to the bus is important. And, you know, the, what I call the community builder.

Debbie: 

Raising my hand here. Hello. Yes.

Margaret Webb:

It’s important to recognize who your community is and who are you listening to and are they feeding you with things that are fueling you or are they making you feel bad or guilty and to be mindful of that. And so I think being able to plug into a character or to kind of put that on at some points to see like, wait, where are my archetypes? Like if I were to just pause and think, okay, do I know, like, am I being curious? Do I have a big picture vision for what I’m wanting or needing? Which I think is so important for parents like us because so often we can hand our power over to experts and think that they have the big picture vision for us when we spend 15 minutes with them or 60 minutes with them. And I think allowing parents to realize that they have the power to say, like, wait, hold on. We, like, what is our family’s big picture vision for whatever is causing us tension or whatever it is that we’re struggling with and to get clear on that and then bring in the child and they, you know, curiosity. Like what could this look like? And then bring in the warrior and say, what are the things that need to get done in order to make this happen? And then are there people that we can bring in to support us with this? And sometimes it’s like, oh, you know, some of the archetypes can work together. And so I like, you know, I’m big with my hands. So I’m like, okay, we can bring this in with this in, you know, this archetype with this archetype, but they can work together. And it can be so empowering as a parent to look at things from that perspective instead of feeling like you have to hand over your power to the experts and think, okay, well, you know, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Debbie: 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit more about the archetypes because I find this so fascinating. First of all, I just love this framework. It feels so, again, I don’t know if it’s fresh. I don’t know what it is, but there’s something about it. It feels really liberating, I think, to know that we can have all of these pieces. It kind of makes me think about that therapeutic modality of internal family systems where you have different, there are different Debbie’s, there are different Margret’s and that they all play a role and they can all help us or hinder us, but it’s good to know them. So I just think that the way you’re describing this is such a nice way to kind of negotiate this deeper understanding and maybe create an alliance with these different pieces of who we are. So I do want to talk about, I’d love to just spend a little bit more time on the four bigger, I mean you talk about many in the book, but the four ones that have been most influential for you. And I do want to just touch on warrior mode one more time because I personally relate. And again, that isn’t, it isn’t about being that warrior. It’s not necessarily like I’m going to, you know, fix this and or, you know, it’s, it’s more about control ultimately, right?

Margaret Webb:

Well, and it’s recognizing that each, and I didn’t say this earlier, but each archetype has shadows. And so there can be too much or too little of each of those archetypes. And it’s monitoring when, you know, like what you’re describing, when the warrior archetype gets to be too much, where then it’s like, okay, like I need, you know, I’m like, batten down the hatches and I need to do this and I need to do that and like and Recognizing like what those physical, you know, how it how it shows up for you physically I think that can be really significant to know that like okay, like my stomach is all tight I’m like clenching my fist. My shoulders are tight. I’m like ready to just punch anybody in the face at a given moment It’s important to recognize that and how it shows up. And it’s recognizing when the balance starts to shift. Because the warrior is, it’s not a, like I said, it’s not a bad thing. Like it’s something that we all have within us and it’s necessary, but it’s recognizing when it starts to shift into an off balance where sometimes we can have too much, sometimes we can have too little, where we hand over our power to other people. And then all of a sudden we hand over our power and then we get pissed off because it’s like, oh my God, this person is making this decision and it’s crazy and it doesn’t fit. And so now I’m gonna get angry and I’m gonna fight back. And it’s like, wait, hold on, you know, let’s just get, that’s where then I like to play around with, let’s check in with the queen or the monarch. Let’s, you know, and I like to describe them, like just directions, like north, south, east, west. And so south is warrior. So go up to the opposite direction, which is north. And that’s the elder. And it’s using what you know. And it’s like clarity. Okay. Like, so, okay. What do I want? What is my intention for this experience, this therapy, this school? And just allow yourself to settle. And then you can activate the other archetype of curiosity, you know, bring in the child, like, okay, well, what would that look like? What school would that look like? Or if it’s unschooling or, you know, whatever it is, and then allow the warrior to come back in like, okay, well, then what are the details? And I think the biggest thing is like realizing that the warrior’s great at details. But if it’s not given a mission, it will create a mission.

Debbie: 

Yes. Right. That is when you say that I think about when I wake up at four in the morning, because that’s what my body does now. And then my warrior’s like, Okay, what should you be fixated on in this moment that you need to solve? Like I look for a mission, my warrior mode, for some reason, maybe it’s the one that’s waking me up. But I want to talk about The elder, just to be clear, the elder is within us. It’s a part, is it our intuition? Is that how you think of it?

Margaret Webb:

Yes. All of these are part of us. And it’s allowing ourselves to trust, you know, to take that pause and to say, like, what do we value? What is important? What is the big picture? Because where’s little picture? Elder is big picture of what is the vision and you know, and regardless of what you think about Queen Elizabeth, I always think about her. When I think about the elder or the monarch, because I’m like, she didn’t care if people liked her or didn’t like her. She was just like, you know what, this is what I think is best for whatever. And whether it was or not, like she wasn’t worried about what people thought. She was thinking about like, What do I think is most important? And I think if we think about that with our families, our kids, what is most important? Then we can do what we can to facilitate that as much as possible. But it’s allowing ourselves to have that vision.

Debbie: 

Right, right. Yeah, it makes total sense. And then you’ve talked about curiosity, which I know is one of our respective favorite words, and also play. So can you then talk a little bit about how the power of play and curiosity when we’re navigating this hero’s journey?

Margaret Webb:

Yes, those are my favorite words because I think a lot of times when we get into something we think, oh, I need to work on this. Like there’s a challenge with my child, there’s a challenge with the school, there’s a challenge with whatever, with our family, external, you know, our extended family, and so we need to work on it. And I say work as a four-letter word for me during those times, and I think play. How can I play? And it’s opening up the curiosity of what can things look like? And how can I play around with something? Because play, when you think about a child who’s playing and building a sand castle, they’re allowed to try something. And it might fail, or it might not fail, but the sand might fall down. And I remember like, building sandcastles myself and then bringing out tin foil and thinking that I could make a moat. And then the water would, you know, I’d fill it with water and I’d get disappointed and playing around with different things. And so I think that to extend that is like, you know, allowing ourselves as parents to play with different things, to have a perspective of play of, I’m going to try this and I’m gonna see how it goes. And it might work and it might not work. And that’s okay. But what did I learn from that? And that’s the power of the child archetype, is learning from the things that work, the things that don’t work for you, your child, your family, and using that to move forward and to say, oh, okay, well, that didn’t work. What is one thing I can try differently next time? And I think having those questions of, what worked, what didn’t work, what could I do different, which I learned from my mentor, Michael Trotta, while fire building, like using those with our kids, I think is gold, because you’re teaching them to realize like not everything is gonna work out the first time. And if you just scrap everything, then you’re leaving so much good information on the floor instead of taking it with you and saying, okay, you know what, this is what I noticed. This is what worked. And so this is what we can do next time and build on that and do something different and keep good, you know, and that’s the snowball that kind of can get rolling to making things work easier or be easier and more joyful for your family.

Debbie: 

Yeah. We’re going to take a quick break. And then when we come back, we’ll talk a little bit about the teacher community builder archetype and then some of the other concepts that you shared in your book. Are you doing okay? Is this like what you were thinking we’d be doing? Okay, good. Okay. You’re like, I’ve been talking about this stuff for my whole life. I know this is great. Yeah, okay. Alright. So I’d love to just spend and then let me there was something else I wanted to say. Sorry. Just before we move on from play, I just want you to know that when I post things, when I share, for example, the monthly theme and the differently wired club, my tendency is to be like, this month we’re working on. And I’m like, and I go back, delete, this month we’re going to play with. Like you’ve completely changed how I think about all the things that we’re exploring, you know, together as a community and the things that can really support our parenting lives. And I do, I think that language can change everything because it’s not judgmental. There’s no getting it right or wrong, it just is. And it just feels so much better. So listeners, even just thinking about how you can start incorporating this idea of play in your lives, that alone can really change so much for you. So I just wanted to say that. But could you spend a few minutes talking about that fourth kind of bigger archetype that has been you know, a big feature of your parenting experience, and that’s the teacher community builder.

Margaret Webb:

Yeah, and it makes me so happy to hear about the play work thing. But, you know, the community builder is one that and teacher is one that I really. Honestly, I struggled a great deal early on in my own parenting experience because I think one of the shadows of it is that if you’re not doing what everybody around you is doing, then you’re doing something wrong or that like you’re doing a disservice to your child. And I saw it show up so many times of people, you know, coming up to me and being like, oh, you know, you need to go see this doctor or you need to do this therapy or you need to do this. And really at first, thinking, oh my gosh, I guess I do need to do this because it’s clearly working for them. And I had to get comfortable with saying, none of those things felt good. There were a few things that was like, a few therapists that we were recommended to who we still work with, who were like, okay, yeah, this feels like a total thumbs up, this feels like a major hell yeah experience. But there were many. And looking back, I realized that, you know, one of the shadows is that when you make a decision, you want other people to validate it by validating your choice. And I think it can be so tough, especially, you know, and I see this a lot in the discussion posts where people are like, oh my gosh, you know, I’m deciding to unschool, like, is this the right decision? And I think that’s where you have to go to your elder and your child and say like, knowing what I know about what we’re going through or who my child is, I can’t listen to what everybody else is doing. I can’t do what everybody else is doing. I have to trust myself. And so I think that’s a huge thing that I want to pass on because I think a lot of times as parents early on we feel nervous and we feel insecure or we feel judged based on the choices that we make or don’t make. And if we pause and check in with who we know our child to be, and trust that we can change our decisions, we can make different choices. You know, like a couple months later, we can say, okay, we’ve reached baseline and now we’re ready to try this. But I think it’s so important to kind of separate what our communities are telling us to do if they’re a community that is kind of a shadow community. Now, I am so grateful that you have created, you know, the TILT parenting community and the differently wired community because it is so positively focused. I was just telling somebody the other day about how I love that the underlying intention is to positively support parents in parenting who their child is, where they are, and that, you know, yeah, it can be really tough, but you know, you can do it and you’re not alone. There are other people out there who are going through similar struggles, similar challenges, but the more that we trust ourselves and what we know about our kids, that’s the energy that our kids are receiving is that we’re meeting them where they are and what they need. And that is where I think that a lot of growth and a lot of positive stuff can happen.

Debbie: 

Mm hmm. Yeah, well, I appreciate you saying that. And I think that is one of the things, probably why I loved your book so much. And also, I think the work that you do is so powerful. And what I’ve tried to do until to show this isn’t about, you know, doing this strategy x, y, z, or it’s not necessarily big life upheavals, it is small tweaks. It is the work that we’re doing in our minds and the way that we choose to show up and navigate in the moment challenges and in the moment bright spots and how we’re constantly working to make meaning and to learn. So it might be too subtle for some people, but for me, it is the most powerful work that we could do because it really has the power to transform everything for ourselves, for our kids and for our whole family and, may I say, for society. You know, it’s big stuff we’re doing.

Margaret Webb:

I mean, I’ve seen it, I’ve lived it, and it’s like me giving myself permission to be the parent that I am for my child has given so many other people permission to be the parents for their kids, even if it looks totally different. And that to me is like the best thing ever because it’s, you know, it’s like there is no one size fits all, put our kids in a box, prescription, X, Y, Z, do this and get that. No, it’s learning them, but also learning, you know, just taking care of ourselves and realizing, you know, our thoughts about things and tending to those in order to show up for our kids the way that we want to show up for them.

Debbie: 

Yeah, yeah, it’s great. I want to touch upon this idea of shadow forces. You’ve talked about it, you know, briefly here, but I know that that’s a part of this kind of framework, this archetype, this hero’s journey is understanding those shadow forces. You bring it up in our coaching calls a lot. So it’s part of our experience. So could you just take a few minutes and talk a little bit more about what you mean when you say a shadow force and how that shows up and how we can navigate that.

Margaret Webb:

Yeah, so shadow forces, you know, with regards to archetypes, it can just be, you know, monitoring too much and too little. Like, am I showing up too much as a warrior? Am I showing up too much as a child? Too much as a, you know, elder, where I’m like dominating, you know, it’s like, it’s so interesting to think about too much and too little in each of those. But I also focus on shadow forces of, you know, recognizing what our thoughts are and how our thoughts can take us down to unhelpful patterns and being able to question those and really think about, okay, is that really true? I do bring in Byron Katie’s work of the work with just, it can be super helpful just to be aware of, oh, this is my thought and is my life over because of this? No, not necessarily, it’s not. And questioning that, and so kind of just bringing some perspective, but also recognizing shadow forces of what your body is telling you, if it’s like going into lockdown over things, that gives information. And just emotions. I know a lot of times, one of the shadow forces for a lot of parents is not wanting to feel emotions because it feels like it’s gonna be too big, it’s gonna be too much, we’re gonna get stuck in it. What kind of mom would I be if I was feeling angry or sad or guilty or any of those things? And to be aware of what to do to take care of yourself when those things happen because we are human beings who experience normal human emotions and when something, and that’s part of the threshold crossing into a hero’s journey is like, this wasn’t something that we might’ve chosen and it is now part of our life. And there can be normal human emotions about that. Like I didn’t ask for this to be part of my life. Like I was a rule follower, I was this, I was that. I did everything I was supposed to do and now I’m sent on this journey that I don’t know everything. And I’m allowed to be a little bit angry about that. I’m allowed to be sad about that. I’m allowed to feel grief around that. And in doing that for myself and feeling those feelings, it allowed me to process and release them in order to see parenting my child from such a different perspective where I wasn’t like holding on to those shadow feelings around parenting where I could be like, you know what, okay, yep, got, and also when new things happen, as they will new grievings, you know, you see somebody who’s able to do, you know, like I share about kids going to college. It’s like, okay, yeah, that’s not our journey right now. And for kids being on soccer teams, that was never, you know, I thought that was going to be our journey, but that wasn’t. So allowing for those little mini grievings, and the more that you allow yourself, then the faster you can cycle through them. And I think it’s when we deny ourselves to feel those things, that then they build up and they’re built, you know, and resentment, frustration, irritation, annoyance builds up and then nothing good happens when that takes place.

Debbie: 

Yeah. So listeners, I hope you’re getting a sense of why Margaret is such a wise, amazing human parenting coach and why I have turned to her time and time again, because you are really wise and I love your authenticness and your lived experience and the way that you share that and really support other people and feeling the hard things and also knowing that it is okay. You know, this is a very human experience. So thank you for that. And I and I’m being conscious at the time, but a few other things before we wrap up, I just want to note that one of my favorite parts of your book is every now and then you have Margaret-isms, and I love your Margaret-isms. And there’s one that I thought would be nice to share, because you use it quite a lot, and it’s Good To Know. So can you explain the Margaret-ism of Good To Know and how we can use that?

Margaret Webb:

Yeah, good to know is one of my favorites. And it was something that my husband and I came up with because I think when you’re parenting with somebody else, there can be a lot of triggers, you know? And so we came up with good to know, and we call it GTN, even though I know that it should be GTK, but GTN just sounds better because we grew up with BTK and so it’s just the fact of I’ve recognized when I’ve gone down a path that isn’t working it’s not going the way that I thought it was going to and to just say good to know and it allows for a pause and if you’ve got a partner you can say you know okay GTN or good to know and that means we’re not gonna discuss it any further, but I know that what I was doing wasn’t helpful. And I’m going to do something different next time. Or I’m gonna try to do something different now, and I don’t wanna discuss it. And I think it’s helpful not only with partnerships, but it’s also helpful with our kids, because there are many times when I will say that to our son and it’s just like, okay, good to know. Like good to know that didn’t work. And we don’t have to really like, you know, we can do something different right now. But it’s good to know that this didn’t work for you, didn’t work for us, and we’re gonna try something different, which then taps into the play, the child archetype. And then it’s like, okay, well, what can we do differently? But it’s been a really powerful tool for us as partners to just be able to be like, yeah, no, I know that looked like a total shit show and you’re right, but I don’t wanna talk about it right now. I’m gonna choose to do something different right now. Good to know. I’m gonna do something different and we’re gonna move on.

Debbie: 

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, such a great, three wonderful little words that have a lot of power. Good to know. There’s one other concept I wanted to just share with listeners before we wrap up, and that is a question that also comes up a lot in our coaching calls that we do together, is this idea of how old is my child right now? How old is my child developmentally right now? And it’s something we often forget to ask. So could you talk about how we, as parents, could incorporate that into our lives?

Margaret Webb:

Yeah, it’s such a powerful thing to get perspective on because quite often our children might be a certain chronological age, but developmentally in a given moment, they might be a much younger age, they might be a much older age, and I think it’s helpful to when you notice that you’re feeling challenged or when there is tension to just be able to pause and say, how old is my child developmentally in this moment? And it doesn’t, you know, it’s not saying anything about the child. It’s just saying like, you know, oh, right now, like my 20 year old child is 13. And so how would I approach him if he were a 13 year old? And I had this awareness when he was seven and it was total, like it was a total game changer cause he was seven and I had taught seven year olds and I was like, okay, you know, I’m all over this and handling things as though I would handle them with a seven year old and it was working not at all. And I just had this momentary blip of like, how old is he right now? And it was like, he’s three. So I had a seven-year-old chronological son, and his developmental age at that moment was a three-year-old. And I thought, well, how would I handle things if he were three? And it changed everything. It changed my perspective, it changed my energy, it changed how I approached him, and it went so much better, and we were able to cycle through it so much faster. And so I think being able to check in and just pressing that pause button momentarily and saying, How old is my child developmentally in this moment, regardless of whatever thoughts we might have around their chronological age and whatever, I mean, they could be, I mean, you just spend time in an airport and you see 50-year-old men acting like five-year-olds or 50-year-old women acting like five-year-olds. I mean, it’s like, okay, how old is this person right now? So it’s not just our kids, but I think it’s so helpful to realize like, oh wow, like right now, they might not have the emotional regulation skills or tools that they need based on what has led up to this moment. And so how would I approach them if they were this age? It’s a total game changer. And yeah, it makes such a difference.

Debbie: 

Yeah, agreed. As you’re saying that, I’m also thinking, yeah, it applies to all of us when I go home with my family. I’m a 17 year old for sure, which was not the most enlightened version of myself. And with our kids who are developing so asynchronously, it can be just perplexing ongoing because they could be different ages within a day. It can go back and forth within weeks and situations within, yeah, within 60 seconds. So I love that phrase, the reminder to take a pause and just ask that question. It’s so grounding. And then it kind of gets rid of any meaning we’re making to the behavior or it can stop our mind from spiraling about you know, the what ifs or what does this mean because we’re just dealing with what’s happening right now. So it’s such a grounding phrase. I love that.

Margaret Webb:

Well, one of my favorite questions around that is what is actually going on right now, which also involves that, because it does take you out of your thinking mind and allow you to go into the kind of like detective mode what’s actually going on, just the facts. Oh, my child is three, or my child is seven, or my child is 27, thinking about physics and thinking about coding or whatever. It’s like, oh, okay, we’ve just gone from three to 27 in 60 seconds, but that question of what is actually going on right now does bring that grounding.

Debbie: 

Yeah, that’s great. No, not at all. It’s great. There’s obviously so much that we could talk about. Your book is just rich with resources and I wanted to also just share with you and with listeners. I love the way that you set it up because you present a lot of concepts. We really did scratch the surface. We kind of gave an overview so you could get a feel, but there’s so many incredible tools in there. Tools like we just shared, you know, good to know is a powerful tool. These are really powerful tools. But every concept is its own short chapter. So for me as a reader who I struggle with kind of things that go on and on, I love that. I was like, oh, that chapter is over. It’s such a feeling of accomplishment. And I learned something great from that chapter. Okay, so we can’t get into all of it. But before we say goodbye, I guess I’d love to know, again, first of all, congratulations. This is something that I know you’ve been wanting to bring out into the world and congratulations to us as parents everywhere because we get to have access to all of these incredible tools and to your wisdom. So what are you hoping it does in the world? What are you most excited about to get it out there?

Margaret Webb:

Um, gosh, that’s such an interesting question. I just, I want, like my passion is supporting people who felt like I did when I crossed my threshold in my own journey in parenting and felt like there weren’t the resources that I needed. And so my hope is that this book is a resource for people who are crossing that threshold regardless of what it is, because it doesn’t even have to be somebody who’s differently wired. It just can be, I mean, we all experience, I think all parents experience threshold crossings. But my ultimate passion is just supporting parents and knowing that they’re not alone and that there are tools and that there are just the most basic of questions that they can have in their back pocket when they’re feeling alone or feeling like they’re struggling.

Debbie: 

Wonderful. Well, thank you. Thank you. And listeners again, the book is called A Hero’s Journey in Parenting, Parenting the Child You Didn’t Expect While You Were Expecting. And where can listeners get the book and learn more about you?

Margaret Webb:

Okay, okay. And you can go to my website, to get information on where you can buy it.

Debbie: 

Awesome. And of course, listeners, as I always do, I say this at the end of every episode, but I’ll say it again, I will have links in the show notes pages to all the things and things that came up in our conversation as well. So you can always head over there and just click on what you need. So Margaret, I’m so grateful for you. I love you dearly and I enjoyed this conversation. Of course, I learned more as I always do every time that we talk but thank you so much for everything that you shared today and for supporting our community so beautifully.

Margaret Webb:

Thank you so much. I love the community that you have built and I love our conversations as well. So thank you.