Laurie Berkner on Inclusivity & Connecting Through Music

Debbie Reber  00:00

Today’s episode is brought to you by Kids Poetry Club. The Kids Poetry Club is a weekly 15 minute podcast that offers fun rhymes and characters in a welcoming whimsical world. why not check out this week’s episode on being yourself? Everyone’s invited to join the fun of the Kids Poetry Club, podcast, learn more, and kids poetry club.com.

Laurie Berkner  00:24

I feel like when I was younger, one of the things I really wished would happen is that I wished people would really listen to what I had to say and what I was thinking. And I did not feel like grownups did that very much. And I don’t want to be that grown up.

Debbie Reber  00:46

Welcome to Tilt Parenting, a podcast featuring interviews and conversations aimed at inspiring, informing and supporting parents raising differently wired kids. Before I introduce today’s guest, I wanted to invite you to celebrate an anniversary with me this week, four years ago, 2016 I launched Tilt Parenting and released my very first podcast, a conversation with parent coach Margaret Webb on finding peace and parenting the child you didn’t expect when you’re expecting. I had about a dozen I think people on my email list and on the Facebook page, I think half of them were related to me. I had a manifesto, a creed, I had built a website. And more than anything, I had a mission to launch a revolution for parents like me, raising differently wired kids. Well, since that time in four short years, Tilt has grown more than I ever could have imagined. I’ve published a book for parents on how to raise atypical kids with confidence and hope. Our message of changing this parenting paradigm has spread far and wide around the world through articles and interviews and conferences, and summits and speeches. And you all have found each other and created a genuine community of support and camaraderie. And together we have fundamentally changed the way our kids are seen by popularizing the term differently wired and reinforcing the idea that difference does not equal deficit. I don’t know about you, but I can feel the momentum our movement is gathering. And I know it’s because we are finding each other and we’re speaking our truth. And we’re compassionately educating friends and family and teachers and the world about who our kids are and what they have to contribute. So I just needed to take a moment to share that with you. I am grateful every single day that I get to do this work. And it’s because of you that I continue to feel motivated and inspired to keep going. So thank you so much. Thanks for being a part of this. And now I’ll get onto today’s show. 

Debbie Reber  03:02

My guest has been called the undisputed Queen of kindy rock and I admit to having a bit of a fangirl moment here as her music was a big part of our family soundtrack for many years. So I’m so excited to bring on the show singer and songwriter Laurie Berkner. With an average of more than 10 million monthly streams and millions of CDs and DVDs sold. Lori’s songs have become beloved classics for kids around the world. She’s become a fixture on Kids TV. She’s authored children’s picture books, and she has written the music and lyrics for three children’s musicals. But I wanted to bring Laurie on the podcast because she is incredibly intentional about connecting with and making room for differently wired and differently abled kids through her work. I love connecting my audience with creators who are truly committed to the ideals of inclusivity and Laurie is definitely deserving of our support. So in our conversation, I talked with Lori about writing music that connects with all kids, why her music so powerfully resonates with differently wired children, her mission of inclusivity and much more. And just a quick reminder before I get to that, if you’re feeling alone and are struggling with the way life has changed in recent weeks, be sure to join my online community on Facebook till together, people are showing up over there to support each other, lifting each other up sharing resources and suggestions for those in need and much more. So if you could use some of that connection or information, just search for tilt together on Facebook, or just go to facebook.com/groups/tilt together. And now here is my conversation with Laurie 

Debbie Reber  04:54

Hello, Laurie, welcome to the podcast. 

Laurie Berkner  04:56

Hi, so good to be here. 

Debbie Reber  04:59

Happy to Have you on the show. I was really excited to do this conversation. And I will just have to fess up that I have a 15 year old. And even he was impressed that I was going to have you on the show. So I’ve kind of hit the big time, I think having you on. I’m honored. Well, so I actually would love for I’m sure that listeners are familiar with your music. But I’d love to hear a little bit about your origin story. I was thinking about this. If you were a superhero, which I think you are to so many kids, you would have an origin story. So can you tell us how you got into doing this work that you’ve been doing for so many years now?

Laurie Berkner  05:39

Sure. Um, yeah. When I first graduated from college, I was performing and singing my own original songs in like cafes around New York City, and I ended up getting a job as a preschool music teacher, and I wasn’t sure what I was doing at all. And I ended up deciding that the way I was writing music for my sort of evening performances, I thought, well, I could try and do that with the kids, since I don’t know what to sing with them. Like they’re essentially stumping me, I would come in having like, gone to the library and listen to a lot of music and thinking, Oh, these will be fun songs. And they would just say, Oh, that’s boring. That’s a baby song. They didn’t pay any attention to me. And so finally, I just started saying, Well, what do you guys want to sing about? And actually, one of the very first songs I wrote was, we are the dinosaurs, because some kids said dinosaurs and all the rest of the kids said, Yeah, and I said, Great. Stand up. And let’s be dinosaurs marching. And I just started playing a minor chord. And kind of took it from there. When they sang that song in particular, as a song that I felt like I really like learned from them, they marched around, everybody got a little crazy. So I said, Stop, I need some food on the ground. And that’s what they did. And I started to write more songs by just asking the kids what they wanted. I got it. I also got direction from my predecessor in that job, who basically said, you know, don’t talk to the kids, say it through the music. And so that was hugely helpful. And then I kind of took what I had written there, this it seemed to work. And it grew when after I recorded the music, and then found myself trying to sell it and see if other people besides my, the kids who were in my classes, actually wanted to hear it, which turned out to be the case that actually happened a lot through just playing it at birthday parties, being asked by my parents, the parents of my students to come and sing at their birthday parties. Oh, and you recorded those songs that you’re doing in the class that they all come home singing? Can you give me 10 of your cassette tapes? I’ll put them in goodie bags and give them out. And then I would get a call from a kid from another school who was at that party. And can you come to my kid’s birthday party because we’re listening to this tape all the time. And it was very organic in that way in the beginning.

Debbie Reber  08:21

I love that we’re talking about cassette tapes like this was a while ago, right? It was a while ago. I’m just wondering, and I forgive the reference. But also, we just finished streaming all of Parks and Rec. I don’t know if you’ve seen that show. Oh, I’m still making my way through the office. Okay. Yeah, parks and rec is what you do after the office. That’s what we did. But there is a character on there who has a similar journey with regards to the birthday parties and starting music that way. And I just wonder. I mean, obviously, you couldn’t have anticipated what would happen. You know, how long ago was that? And tell us what have been some of the highlights over the years, because you’ve been you know, you’ve had a show on Nickelodeon. You write children’s books, like you’ve just become this huge voice and brand in this space. And I’m just curious about what that has been like for you. 

Laurie Berkner  09:13

Um, yeah,  it’s been great. I mean, it’s so funny, because some of in some ways, some of the things that I did felt a little bit over 90, you know, that sort of the cliche of the overnight success, and yet, I don’t think any of them would have happened if I hadn’t been working with kids and listening to them, and spending time with them making up songs and thinking about them for years before the thing happened overnight. So I think it’s been just a long process and a long journey. So that was the first question you asked was when that was so a year out of college for me was I’m trying to just put the number 

Debbie Reber  10:02

You don’t have to divulge too much if you don’t want to.

Laurie Berkner  10:06

That’s okay. It was, well, I graduated in 91. So, you know, almost 30 years ago, but I and I started writing probably in that first year or two, I think of being a preschool music teacher. And then I didn’t actually record any of the songs until 1997. So my first that that cassette tape I was talking about is the album What do you think of that for the first song is we are the dinosaurs. And that album came out in 1997. And came out meant that I went to a recording studio of a friend of a friend who lived in Hoboken and had a space in his little brownstone type apartment or part of one. And we recorded it over a weekend on I don’t know this for anyone who’s listening who is actually like thinking about how recordings used to be done, it was on reel to reel tape, one inch wide, if not on a computer or Pro Tools or anything like that. And, you know, is basically like, I sat down in front of a mic and held my guitar and played the songs. And then I asked some friends to come in and put some piano on Susie Lambert, who ended up who was in the band still. And actually, I had Adam Bernstein play bass there, mostly stand up bass, I think. And he ended up being a bass player in the band for a while. And also my husband, Brian Mueller played some I think he played some electric guitar on it. And I think the engineer played a little piano, and we did some like, I don’t know, hand drums. And I mean, it was very, very low budget, very old school. 

Debbie Reber  11:56

Yeah, I was just wondering even from that point from those origins in a little apartment in Hoboken to what you’ve created in the year. I’m just wondering, I mean, I’m assuming so much of that must have just been so unexpected. And being able to, to create and share your work in so many different mediums. What have been some of the highlights for you? Or what’s your favorite part of that?

Laurie Berkner  12:19

Yeah, well, I mean, my favorite part of being able to do all this is, it’s not even like the things that happened. I think it’s actually the meet and greets, after my concerts. I feel like I like it. I know that there will be kids who come because music has been a huge part of their lives, and I get to actually interact with them and meet them. So I feel like that is actually really what’s super fun for me, as well as the actual recording process. I actually really love that. But as far as things that happened over time, I mean, with some of the early stuff that was really exciting was like getting on the Today Show the first time that someone who was a parent in Manhattan, I had done a birthday party. And this mom was a line producer at the today show and she had gotten Buzz buzz as a gift in a goodie bag for her kid at a birthday party and her son had become really into the music. And she started kind of like, looking into what I was doing and pitched me to the executive producer of the today show at the time. So they put me in the plaza and we did a performance. And you know, to people like screaming and holding up signs and stuff, and getting there at whatever four in the morning to set up and having some guy look at me and go, Okay, I’m going to count down and then we’re going live, you know, to like, the world or whatever. You know, he was like five, four. Okay, I’m singing Buzz Buzz, and We are the Dinosaurs. I mean, it was just like, it felt sane. And I thought, I’m a music teacher. But, that’s not totally true. I actually knew that I really loved performing. I always, I mean, I wanted to be on Broadway when I was a kid, I always imagined that I would somehow get to perform music. I just didn’t think it would be for this particular age group. So definitely, it was exciting to be able to do that. And also look out and see like, everybody’s having fun. So anyway…

Debbie Reber  14:35

That’s so great. That’s a great story. And I was poking around your website and just reading what other people have said about you and you have a quote on the homepage of your site, which I loved, which is “Laurie Berkner what Fred Rogers did respect, validate and reassure young children.” And even in you sharing your story you talked about how you were almost creating this music in collaboration with kids that you were listening to them, you weren’t telling them what it should be. And so I’m just wondering, where does that lens come from? Is that kind of how you inherently connected with children? or How did you know to do that?  

Laurie Berkner  15:15

I don’t, I’m trying to think I don’t really know. I mean, I do feel very aware that when I think about my own inner child, you know, I guess I imagine that most people have sort of an age that looks like a spirit age, kind of like, where they connect the most, and maybe what they think about a lot, and I think mine is four years old. I am not really sure what it is about that time. But I feel like when I’m around kids that age are in the vicinity of that age. I just, I’m so I don’t know, I just feel like there’s something very magical about that time. And I feel like I learned so much from them. So. And I don’t know exactly why. But maybe it’s also that I feel like when I was younger, one of the things I really wished would happen is that I wished people would really listen to what I had to say and what I was thinking, and I did not feel like grownups did that very much. And I don’t want to be that grown up, like I want to, I want to listen to what they have to say I feel like it’s totally selfish for a lot of reasons. One is that I feel like I get so much but I also don’t ever want to be the person who makes a kid feel like that i’m sure I have without meaning to. But I don’t want to consciously ever do that. So maybe I’m just trying to make up for how I felt when I was a kid.

Debbie Reber  16:56

And now a quick break for word from our sponsor. Kids Poetry Club is a whimsical podcast that offers kids and escape to a world where they are guaranteed a warm welcome. Each week rhymes fun. And characters can bind on a different theme like music, bees and the weather. why not check out the recent episode on kids worries, or this week’s episode on being yourself. Each episode includes a free activity pack and chances for kids to join in. Everyone’s invited to the fun of the Kids Poetry Club podcast, Learn more at kidspoetryclub.com. And now back to the show. 

 

Debbie Reber  17:38

Then let’s pivot a little bit or maybe even expand upon this. Because, you know, I know that you are connected with, you know, with my community with kids who are differently wired. I have a friend who years ago had written a blog post, she has an autistic son and you were really her son’s hero and taking him to one of your concerts and getting to meet you afterwards was one of the highlights of his life. And I know that you do have a strong connection with this community. And so can you talk a little bit about that? Like where does that come from? And what is it about connecting with differently wired kids that is so important to you?

Laurie Berkner  18:15

Well, that’s another thing that’s sort of like a circle to me. So before I ever did kids music, it’s funny, I actually worked with autistic adults. Not that I was trained or taught to do anything. It was just a job that I I don’t even know how I got it. But I used to work at a place called AMEC in Manhattan, like the year after I graduated from college, right before I started doing preschool music. And there was something that drew me to, I just, I saw an ad for it. And I applied for the job. And I got it. And I used to bring my guitar in and sing. And there was something that really drew me to wanting to work with adults with autism. And I found myself like, sometimes writing songs about them, and just also having that same sense of it’s, it’s not just magic, it’s like, wondering, how does this person I’m sitting with see what is going on or experience what is going on differently from me. And I think there’s just something magnetic about that for me for some reason. So anyway, I just remember I did that. And then I really didn’t think about it so much. I kind of moved on to doing preschool music. And then I started noticing that kids have all kinds of different abilities, but actually, actually very prominently kids on the autism spectrum or were responding to my music in ways that I did not expect or understand frankly, like, I’m not sure that I understand why anyone necessarily connects to my music? I don’t know that that don’t mean that to sound. I don’t know what that sounds like. But I mean that very honestly, like I did when I wrote, I have written all the songs, I will record them. And I actually remember thinking like, this isn’t even a song like songs that have become some of my biggest hits. Like, I remember thinking we had the dinosaurs. I was like, is this a dumb song like, I don’t even know what this song is. But I love seeing it with the kids. And then people were like, this is the best. My kid loves it. Like, I don’t know why they do. But I notice when kids respond to something, and I feel like oh, this is the kind of thing that I feel like, maybe I would have liked when I was younger, or I see a kid responding to. And so I just keep going with it. Like the song I have pig on her head, which is just, I just wrote it because this kid wouldn’t start music class with me. But would not take this animal off of his head. And I was like, I can sit here and fight with him. Or I can just start singing about this. And then we’ll have class. So I started singing about him having the pig on his head and all the kids ran and got animals and put them on their head. And I was like, okay, we definitely have a song. So you know, it just kept going with it. And I remember trying to record that song. And I was like, this is it. I don’t even know if I should put this on, it was on. I can’t remember what album, it’s on my second album. It’s like, I don’t even know if this is a song. But I’m just gonna put it on here and it grew. And when I do it in concert, we like to touch our noses and touch our toes to our nose. And I mean, it’s like, it just became a much bigger thing because of the interaction with kids. And I feel like there’s something that happens when kids have all differently wired kids like differently wired wired that we say is not different, whatever. But particularly actually, like you’re saying differently wired kids do. There is this strong connection that doesn’t go away? It’s like they wish I understood it. I cannot tell you a years, I feel like I’ve been trying to figure it out. What am I doing? What makes these songs so appealing and comforting and like attractive to especially kids who think differently than we expect them to? You know, so? I feel like I’m just talking, talking and talking because I don’t know. And I find it so amazing and wonderful at the same time.

Debbie Reber  22:37

It really is. I mean, first of all, I just have to say that the song is called Pig on Her Head. Yeah, that like that was one of my all time favorites back when we were consuming your music. So I don’t know what it is about either. But it’s awesome. But you know, as you’re talking about this, I, I love what you’re creating, you know, you’re not consciously saying, Okay, I’m gonna write this with, you know, in trying to force something you are creating what you create. And it seems like you’re having a conversation with kids. And I think it is that honesty that you bring to your work and that respect that you have for all children. And I think so many differently wired. Kids don’t necessarily feel respected in so many environments, they feel separated, they feel like outliers, and just really not seen. And I think there’s something about the way that you communicate, and, you know, your charisma and the way that you show up and your energy that you show up, especially in a live event, but it comes through in videos, too, that just feels like you’re really seeing who these kids are.

Laurie Berkner  23:50

That was so nice. I just I will tell you that I just felt very seen in that moment. I like starting to cry. Because the first thing you said was, it’s like you’re having a conversation with them. And I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anybody put it quite that way. And that felt like Ah, oh, yes. That is what it feels like. It’s like, it’s like we can, we’re talking to each other. And even though that sounds so weird to say because I’m recording myself and someone goes and listens to it by themselves or, or in a group or however but I’m not actually there. But somehow it does feel like that and I think that’s part of what I love about the live shows too is like I feel like I’m having this experience with the kids who are there you know, and I mean with everybody but particularly just like this. It’s a real exchange of energy between human beings and that idea of a conversation that Just like really hit the nail on the head. For me, that’s like a beautiful way to put it. And I appreciate you hearing that. 

Debbie Reber  25:09

Well, let’s, you know, I actually want to hear about your live shows, too, because I know that you also do shows that are really designed to support kids who might have sensory issues. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you prepare families to come to your events? 

Laurie Berkner  25:27

Yeah, I mean, it is one of those things where everyone is different, right. And I feel like there are different ways in which the shows can be difficult or exciting, you know, for the same kids for different kids. But one of the things I have been lucky enough to partner with are places that have done like, some places call them sensory friendly shows, sometimes relaxed concerts went at The Carter Theatre in Princeton, that’s what they call them there. And so doing shows like that, we can actually get a lot of support from the venue at the show itself, where there are people in the lobby offering toys for kids who want to have something to sort of be stimulated by stim toys and quiet place for them to be or a place for them in the lobby to run around that when they’re at the show. Everyone can move freely, can make as much sound as they want, and can stand up at their seat. The lights are not as dim, we don’t use a lot of strobe lights, I usually did them solo, we keep the sound level at a volume that feels like it’s not going to be too much for anyone hopefully, and and before they come to the shows. If anyone wants a setlist, I often don’t have them ready until a few days before the show. But if they’re requested, we’ll send them out. We have placed on our website for people to go and take a look and find out information about the shows themselves so that they can prepare their kids since a lot of kids feel just calmer and happier, knowing what’s coming. So all those things we try to do to make sure that you know, anyone who comes to a show can have fun. And I want to say that I know a lot of kids are happier at a more sensory friendly show. But there are also so many kids who just come to the regular shows. And it’s great. You know, because I’m not asking kids to stay in their seat. And I’m not asking them to not make noise and not move around and not just be whoever they are out there. Like that’s exactly what I want them to do. So I know it can sometimes feel harder because of worrying about other families, other families or other people but everyone’s kind of doing their own thing. So a lot of times I think there’s a lot of crossover in both shows.

Debbie Reber  27:53

Yeah, and you have a page on what to expect for your concerts. I love that you make the setlist available. I mean, we’ve had a lot of crashes and burns at live events that I thought were gonna be awesome and they turned out to not be because expectations weren’t met or we just didn’t prepare properly. So even for your regular concerts, you give parents a sense of what exactly they can expect so they can prepare their kids. Absolutely, yeah. So okay, I want to pivot to what you’re working on right now and I know that you especially as we’re recording this we’re pretty early in the Coronavirus days so hopefully by the time I release this things are gonna be in a different space. But you have a fantastic YouTube channel which I know so many families are unexpectedly homeschooling right now. Can you tell us about, you know, what kind of online resources and tell us what people could find on that channel?

Laurie Berkner  28:54

Well, I mean, a lot of what I’ve done in the past is just making music videos. There are also some more relaxed, we call them fantastic Friday videos, where I’ve just singing things live. But on there, there are playlists that put together songs that have more of an educational component, songs that are more movement oriented, songs that are bedtime rituals, songs that are lullabies. But there, there are a lot of different kinds of playlists, you can find a lot of different songs, I definitely have a pretty large catalogue. And I feel like all of the stuff that’s on there right now is probably mostly music videos and kind of in that format.

Debbie Reber  29:45

So you were talking about the videos on YouTube and I did want to draw our listeners attention to one video that I think came out maybe two years ago. This song is called This is how I do it. Can you talk a little bit about that? I think it will be of special interest. to this community,

Laurie Berkner  30:01

oh yeah. So that song is basically just a song about how to, you know, encouraging kids to move in different ways and do different things and do it in their own way. And when we filmed it, we always make a point of trying to have, you know, a diverse group of kids on every level of diversity. But we wanted to make sure that what we saw were showing that kids who watched it could see kids that they could identify with on any level. So we have a girl in a wheelchair, there are definitely a lot of kids on the autism spectrum in that video, and we tried to leave in moments where like, they were moving in ways that, that maybe sort of more identifiable as someone who is autistic and that I could be able to, like move like them, I wanted to be like the kids, I wanted to respond to them. And I wanted to share just any way that any kid could be me wanted to sort of make a bigger point about that in that video. So that was part of the idea behind it. Now, it wasn’t necessarily when I wrote the song, but I also got, again, a lot of feedback from people in across all different kinds of communities of like, this is just how well received that song was and I think kids have that feeling of this is me of being, you know, empowered to just do things the way that they do them. And that that is what is beautiful, you know,

Laurie Berkner  31:30

yeah, no, I love it. And I I really do think that that age, I talk about this sometimes to my show, is that I feel like preschoolers are, it’s such a wonderful age to just expose them to difference and to normalize it. So it doesn’t seem like it’s something unusual, but it’s just a different way of moving or of being in the world because preschoolers are so accepting, when they understand things, right. They notice things, but they don’t necessarily think something’s good or bad. They’re just curious. And that’s one of the things I loved about that is just normalizing difference and embracing difference. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And thank you. I’m glad that that came across that way.

Debbie Reber

So can you tell us before we say goodbye? What is the latest for you? Is there something that listeners should be keeping an eye out for? Or maybe what’s next? What are you working on?

Laurie Berkner  32:27

Well, in the immediate future, I’m actually going to start making Facebook lives every day, just a little shorty, maybe half an hour, because as you said, We are at the beginning of the Coronavirus, being part of our everyday lives. So we’re doing a lot on social media right now with that, but on bigger levels, I also put out an audio series through audible called Laurie berkner. Song and story kitchen a little while back, and I am hoping that I’ll be getting another one of those out. I also had a new album that came out in October called Waiting for the Elevator and I am close to being done with another one . If I can still keep getting into the recording studio, I will also come out in the not too distant future. So those are some of the things on my plate.

Debbie Reber  33:25

But listeners, as I always do, I’ll have a show notes page for this episode. And I will include links to all the projects that Laurie just shared with us and her YouTube channel. So you can check that out. And I will just personally be checking out your Facebook Lives. And I’ll share that with my community as well, because we got a lot of parents with deer in headlights right now or looking for great content to entertain and support their kids right now. So thank you for doing that. That’s awesome. 

Laurie Berkner  33:52

Oh, yeah, I think it’s gonna be fun. I’ll be having conversations. 

Debbie Reber  33:57

I just want to say thank you so much. It’s just been a pleasure to learn more about you and your story and to share your work with this community. And yeah, I just really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you, and thank you for what you do. You’ve been listening to the tilde parenting podcast for the show notes for this episode, where you can download the transcript, find links to Lori’s YouTube channel, her regular Facebook Lives and much more visit tiltparenting.com/session204. Don’t forget to join us on Facebook on Tilt Together if you’re in need of some virtual support or if you want to be a part of some of my upcoming Facebook Lives that said facebook.com/groups/tilttogether. If you want to help support the production of this podcast, please consider joining my Patreon campaign. Patreon is a simple platform where you can make a very small monthly contribution even $2 a month helps and that helps to fund all production costs associated with keeping this show going. You can find that at patreon.com/tiltparenting. Lastly, don’t forget to leave a rating or a review and to subscribe to this podcast on iTunes. Those ratings and reviews help keep this podcast visible and an ever growing sea of podcasts. Thank you so much for considering. And that’s all for this week. Stay safe, stay well and take good care. And for more information on cell parenting, visit www.tiltparenting.com