What Do I Do When My 18-year-old Is Stalled Out and Not Ready to Launch? (Listener Question)

Debbie:

Hey there, I’m Debbie Reber. This is Full Tilt Parenting, new name for the podcast. Actually, I’m not gonna say that because by the time this comes out, it won’t be that new. Okay, sorry, let me say that again. It’s gonna be a long hour now. Okay. Hey there, I’m Debbie Reber and this is Full Tilt Parenting. It’s a podcast for parents raising neurodivergent kids and a strength-based Neurodiversity Affirming Way. This is a parent lean-in episode, which means I answer listeners’ questions, often with the help of one of my parent coaches from the Differently Wired Club community, which is what I’m doing today. To submit a question for a future parent lean-in episode, you can go to tiltparenting.com slash lean-in, and then you can submit it there. But today I have Zach Morris joining me. Zach is someone who specializes in working with parents and young adults who are navigating the complex journey of neurodivergent experience. And he is uniquely equipped to serve families with profiles of autism, especially PDA. It’s an area of expertise for you. Families who are navigating trauma and families who are needing to heal and repair relationships. And of course, Zach is also a parent coach in my differently wired club. So hi, Zach, welcome.

Zach:

Hi Debbie, thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Debbie:

As always, I’m always happy to have these conversations. So, all right, let’s get into today’s question. So this parent writes, what avenues should parents consider when their neurodivergent teen is nearly 18, yet is still operating with significant mental, physical, academic, and social deficits despite years of intervention and support? We’ve provided our son with medical, therapeutic, academic, and spiritual supports and interventions, yet he continues to decline. School refusal, isolation, physical health decline, job loss, and zero contribution to the family unit. While we continue individual and family therapy, what should we do during this quote unquote extended runway to launch? Tensions are high, relationships among family members are fragile, and the post high school plan is bleak. What should parents do when their neurodivergent child refuses support or strategies, and how much failure is safe?

Okay, so that’s a really big question. So I just want to, first of all, acknowledge how hard this is when you have, when you’re at the, it’s hard at any time, right, when our kids aren’t thriving. And I think this age and stage is particularly tricky because there are so many external markers about what should be happening right now. Even if we know our kids are on a different developmental timeline, we still might have this idea that, but my child should be moving forward this way or has to at least have a plan. And then this person commented on the family member dynamic and that that is adding stress. And so I imagine that there’s a lot of pressure and judgment, perhaps. And so that can really start spinning and the parents head. So I just wanted to kind of say that like, this is a really tough situation to be in. And I guess, you we were talking before we hit record, there’s no like, do X, Y, and Z, like, there’s no quick fix to this, there’s no answer that’s going to kind of solve this right now. So I’m going to just share a couple thoughts and feel free to jump in, Zach, and I’m sure that you have a lot of ideas around this, too. The thing I wanted to start with, is to, if we think about age, like 18 feels really significant. And it is, right? Society thinks here as an 18 year old, you are an adult according to at least in the US society. And so there are some, like we can’t make an 18 year old go to therapy. We can’t make a child do anything that they don’t want to do. We know that, but it’s a little different, right? So it can be a little tricky. But I also want to say that 18 is really young for a launch, especially for a neurodivergent kid, right? And if you think about most of these kids, and I’d like to know your thoughts on this too, but I think socially, emotionally, this kid might be like 14 or 15, right? They’re just on a completely different timeline. And so then if you think about a 14 or 15 year old, and then what we’re expecting them that they should know what they wanna do, they should have a plan, they should maybe be getting a job, it may not be realistic when we think about it in that way, especially if this is a child who is not doing well and is struggling with mental health. And it sounds like this kid has been through a lot. I’m just wondering, I’m just going to pause there. Do you have thoughts about that age?

Zach:

Yeah, well, like, I think you’re speaking towards these pressures, right, that that really creep in from the culture and just creep in from such a long time standing idea of what 18 is, right. And so that adds so much for us as parents, so much for the 18 year old, right, whether that’s really like consciously or unconsciously sort of getting processed. Right. And this just sort of adds an extra layer to trying to navigate all of this, right? Not only are we trying to navigate this situation, but we’re trying to navigate it at this time when we’re also dealing with the most pressure around that in some ways, right? And so kind of to your point, right? I often talk about this as this is like legendary level parenting, right? It is so hard to be in this space right now because you’re trying to support your child. You’re trying to fend off the evaluations and judgments from people. You’re trying to process the pressure, right? All of these things. And so one of the first pieces that sort of came up for me is just the grief of all of that, you know, just all the grief there is to process in terms of us as parents seeing our child struggle and experience the world differently than the way we maybe imagined they would, right? The grief that there maybe isn’t solid social structures for supporting rest and healing at 18 years old. Right? Maybe the grief that our child has about just what life feels like for them. Right? There’s so much grief here. And I think it’s hard to problem solve and exert and sort of take those next steps when there is a lot of grief and if that grief isn’t processed. Right? So, I don’t necessarily have the here’s how you go process your grief necessarily, right? But I think with that question of like, what do we do? Where do we go, right? I think that’s a place to maybe shine a light, give some attention, right? And so amazing if we can ever sort of bring our kiddo there too and their own grief, right? And all those things, but I’m mostly even just talking about our parental grief, right, that we have. So that’s one piece I think about. 

The other piece I think about is it time to get really clear on what we’re willing to do and not willing to do and what we can do and can’t do. You know, so when it comes to financial support, when it comes to, you know, how much we’re going to be around, you know, just all of these pieces, right, that exist sort of outside of maybe what our kiddo might be pursuing or doing, right? Because again, that’s the place we’re stuck.That’s the place where we don’t have a ton of power right now to create movement and all of that stuff. So I think this is that place of getting super clear about what I can do and what I can’t do and what I’m willing to do and not do as that stands independent from what my kiddo’s doing or not doing in a sense, right?

Debbie:

Yeah. Yeah. And if I can just interject there too, I think that we want to do that. It’s really we’re scaffolding, right? And so to your point, it is so important that we prioritize getting grounded and really clear ourselves so that we can be that non anxious presence. So we’re not letting our fears and worries and judgments and all, you know, concerns that we’ve failed in some way, all of that stuff, we don’t want that to play a role in the thinking we have about boundaries or what am I willing to do in our, you know, like, because then we might go into those like, here are my boundaries, here’s what I’m willing to do, here’s what my expectations are, all of that, we might go into that with a different kind of energy or mindset that could feel confronting to a child could feel shaming to that kid who, by the way, I think of Ned Johnson saying, our kids want their lives to work out. So this kid wants his life to work out. And he’s well aware of the fact that right now he’s not doing well. He’s probably super aware of what a lot of his classmates, peers, same age peers are doing versus where he is. And so there’s probably already this sense of internalized shame or disappointment, which can then lead to further stuckness. 

Zach:

Yeah, when I when I think about what those sort of boundaries are for us, right, I think about them a lot from a place of of genuine need, not so in even my willingness, my willingness might be attached to need actually, because it might be that well, I might not be willing to do this thing, because then that creates so many other unmet needs for me. Right. And so so I think about it through these boundaries being not in an effort to teach a lesson or not in an effort to help someone grow a skill, but in a legitimate like, this is what I can do. So if, if, if what I can do, if, if it’s sort of like, this is the, financial contribution I can provide to you sort of each month, right? That, that coming from a place of like, that’s just legitimately what I can and can’t do. It’s, not a matter of only trying to provide you that much so that you maybe start 

thinking you want to get a job, right? Like that’s a totally different, and I’m talking about that space of, based on needs, based on abilities, based on those not manufactured boundaries, in a sense.

Debbie:

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that clarification. That makes total sense. One of the things I also want to kind of touch upon is this idea of what failure is. That was something that came up in the question. And I think specifically, let me look at what she said the word failure not oh yeah okay you know specifically how much failure is safe and I read that I was like oh failure that is a really heavy word right and so and then on the flip side what is success looks look like and so I think those are things that I also would encourage the person who submitted this question or anyone listening who is like navigating this and it because it is messy is to really examine you know what is my definition of failure? Why is that the word or the lens through which I’m looking at this? And what am I making this specific circumstance now and what’s happening, what this looks like? What am I making that mean about who my child is, about who our family is, about who I am as a parent, about what the future is going to look like? So I think we want to explore failure. And on the flip side, we talk a lot about redefining success and especially with a kid who sounds like he’s been through a lot. There’s been a lot of interventions and therapies and still we’re kind of in this place. I would think success is kind of mitigating the decline if we’re continuing to decline. I think getting to a place of like, okay, we’re just kind of holding steady for a while would be a first goal. And just knowing it could take a really long time, slow down, right?

Zach:

Yeah, because it sounds like a bit of a burnout, right? That person, so that’s what it makes me, right? I’m not trying to sort of diagnose that or anything, but just more of like, right? It sounds like burnout in some way, right? And would make sense for the 18 year old possibly. That’s maybe been struggling, right? But maybe trying all these different interventions, right? And all of these things. And kind of to your point, the sort of climb out of that, especially at 18 can be a long game approach, right? If it sort of took 18 years to get here in some way, right? It’s gonna be a process of healing and detangling some of that, right? And coming back into myself. And so I think, you know, it’s so hard. This is so hard to do, right? But it makes me wonder how, and I’m sure this family’s doing plenty of this, right? So not to say that they’re not, right? But making me wonder how we might lean into it even more of just this empathizing around the experience that their teen is having. It makes me wonder, is this teen feeling seen and heard in the struggle? Or is the message that they feel like they’re getting from the world is why it makes sense that they should try this therapy or why it would be good to take these steps? And that might be really far away from me actually making sense and understanding why it makes sense maybe why I’m having this experience, right? And what would help me feel seen and heard by others so that I might be able to see and hear myself? Because to your point, that could be a layer of it. I could be stuck in shame. This could be not even remotely that I’m not interested in doing these things or wanting this. It’s just like I could be paralyzed by shame. And that shame being that maybe like I see this as my situation is wrong or bad or something that I’ve caused, right? All of these things. And so I just think so much about how do we help this need to be seen and this need to be heard get met so that I might be able to give myself that compassion and find hopefulness or find openness or just be able to bring abstract thinking more online. 

Debbie:

Yeah, I mean, one of the things when I was thinking about this question that I wrote down was how important it is that we convey the energy that we believe in you that our kids that we’re not just saying it, but that we are helping them feel our belief and trust in who they are, and that we’re not going to give up on them, you know, that we have, you know, and if we are struggling, if we’re frustrated, the parents are frustrated, they’re feeling hopeless. It’s so important to get support for that to join, you know, a parent support group with other parents who are swimming in those same waters, just so you know that you’re not alone in that. And so that you can kind of share and be seen in your own place so that you can be that steady presence for your child and make sure that they really feel you know, this is this is you’re in a hard spot. This is really difficult. We love you. We see you and we’re going to figure it out. That’s what we do in our family.

Zach:

Yeah, I often talk about it as borrowing our confidence, like letting our kids borrow our confidence, right? And to your point, if I don’t have that confidence, if I don’t have the confidence that we have time or we’re going to figure it out, right, or all of these things, then kind of to your point, it’s like, where do I go get to borrow that from so that my kids can borrow it from me? 

Debbie:

Yeah. Oh, that’s good. I love that. I want to just share a couple other things and then see if you have any additional thoughts you want to add. But I’m thinking of Dr. Dan Peters, who runs the Summit Center in the Bay Area, actually. And he has, for many years, specialized in neurodivergent teens. I’ve had him on the podcast to talk about launching specifically. I know that he would say too, that at this age, especially if you’re looking for what’s next, whether it’s a job or it’s some kind of, you know, university or community college or whatever comes next, that to take this time if you can to really try to get to be in a better place before taking that next step, you know, because any kind of step from here, if you’re not really feeling like more resource, this kid is not going to be set up for success. So it sounds like this parent again has tried, the family’s tried a lot of different things. And of course, you would need your child’s buy-in. But talking with them, would you be willing to try this or I’ve read this or you know, sounds like the parent is very resourceful. So I would encourage continuing to explore what might be out there. Sometimes also just say, I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion, but taking a break if this kid has been in a ton of intervention and therapy and hasn’t made progress. Sometimes taking a break and just saying, you know, we’re going to just focus on regrouping and staying calm at home and supporting our nervous systems at home. And when we’re ready, maybe you’d be willing to give it another go. Because if our kids are not experiencing, you know, change with all these interventions, it can contribute to a sense of hopelessness. Well, I must really be broken because I’m doing all this stuff and I’m feeling worse. So I just want to throw that out there. Go ahead.

Zach:

Yeah, and if we’re talking burnout, pretty much almost always see that to be an essential part of the process, right? Is that like a serious break from whatever the sort of stimulus in routines or expectations that have maybe been continuing to contribute to that stress? The last thing I would add that was coming up for me while you were talking, and it was making me think about, and I feel like I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, and I know it’s something Ned Johnson and William Stixrud. They talk about this is where I’ve gotten it from is from those guys. You know, when we look at the sort of components of what makes it safe to explore something, Whether that’s like a new practice or trying some activity or therapy or whatever the thing is, right, that those guys talk about sort of the needs of competence, autonomy, and connectedness. And how those three things, depending on how they’re being met or how much they’re being compromised in sort of this offering for me, might really impact my level of sort of sense of safety and therefore ability to really explore this thing. So again, if the thing that’s being offered to me is something that I don’t feel very competent in. I kind of have no experience in it. Maybe I’ve had experience and I haven’t had success in it. I don’t feel very connected to it because again, it’s part of what I see as like a lot of exertion and right now I’m fatigued and looking for ease, right? So like maybe I’m not connected or maybe it’s just literally not of interest to me, who knows, right? And so sure, I might have the autonomy to choose to do it or not, but maybe these other parts are making it where like that’s not enough for me, right? Maybe I need more of that competence or I need more of that. Or maybe it’s something where again, I have a lot of competence around it, but I feel like I kind of have no autonomy. That I don’t like, this isn’t really a choice for me. I feel totally like this is just obligation that I need to be doing this in order, right? And so, so that’s just a piece that’s always helpful for me, especially when I’m sort of trying to gauge what might be going on for this person here? Like what might be contributing to just some of this resistance in their system or this experience they’re having? And I’m a lot of times looking at like what might be going on with their competence experience or need or their autonomy or their connectedness to this thing?

Debbie:

And listeners, you know, we’ve mentioned Ned Johnson and Bill Stixrud and they are fabulous. And they wrote the book called The Self-Driven Child, which I think is a phenomenal resource. And I’ll have a link in the show notes page for that. And I also just want to mention that if it is I don’t know the neurodevelopmental profile of this child of this young adult. But if it is a burnout situation, I also want to reference Dr. Megan Anna Neff’s new book, The Autistic Burnout Workbook. I had her on the show. It’s phenomenal. And she does talk with me about her thoughts on how parents can support their kiddo who is in burnout. Definitely check that out. And I’ll also have a link to that in the show notes page. So I think we’re going to wrap up. This was a lot. Again, big question and you know, just sending lots of, you know, love and support to the listener who submitted the question and to anyone else who’s navigating this. It’s not easy. I feel it like I get it and hang in there. There is no kind of traditional timeline. But I will say that time is on our side because our kids are going to continue to grow and evolve and mature, especially knowing their developmental age, maybe quite a few years younger than their chronological age. So, Zach, thank you as always for joining me for this today. And thank you again for the listener. And if you’re listening to this and you want to submit a question for a future Parent Lean In episode, go to tiltparenting.com/leanin and you can submit the question via writing or you can actually leave a voice memo for me as well. So we’ll see you next time. Thanks again, Zach.