Why Food Advice Falls Apart for Neurodivergent Families and What Actually Helps

Debbie:
Hey Amy, welcome to the podcast.

Amy Jones:
Hi, it’s so great to be here.

Debbie:
Yeah, I’m looking forward to exploring. This is a new topic for the show. We’ve talked about food in a different capacity. We’ve talked about body image. We’ve talked about our fit and some things like that. But I think this is going to be like a really practical, helpful conversation for my listeners. When you reached out to me, I was like, I need this information. So I was like, come on the show. Let’s get it out to everybody. So would you, as a way to kick us off, take a few minutes and just kind of tell us a little bit about who you are in the world and also kind of your why, your personal why connected to that.

Amy Jones:
Yeah, definitely. So you know, I’m a functional nutritionist. I also actually spent 20 years in education as a high school teacher before I pivoted hard into nutrition. And part of the reason I did that was for my own mental health, realizing how important food was for me in order to function basically. And then my youngest was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. And then I was like, wait a second, maybe that’s me too. Especially on the journey that I was on. It was anxiety, it was depression. I tried every single medication, like it just was always nothing, nothing would help. And that’s where that pivot came into play. And I started watching with him also how you know some of the things around food and eating consistently and looking at those patterns really changed his behavior, my behavior, my other son’s behavior, and my husband’s, everybody’s. So it was really an amazing, powerful thing. When I started working with clients, things started to shift a little bit. So I’d see them for, you know, a couple of sessions and then they would disappear. So working with the neurodivergent population, I would be reaching out and saying hey and checking in. And that’s where they would just say to me, Amy, I can’t, I don’t know how to do this. I don’t know how. I can’t stick to it. I feel terrible about myself. I really liked working with you. But, you know, it’s so, for me, that became it’s not about the what. We all know we should be eating however many grams of protein, whatever it is. It’s not about that, it’s about the how. So that’s when I went back to school again for ADHD life coaching. And then that was the missing piece, essentially. We talk, you know, definitely in my work with my clients, we talk a lot about the what definitely, and we sort of look at what nutrients might be missing based on their eating patterns and symptoms that they might be having for sure. And we use that as our sort of baseline or guide, but the real work we do and the most work we do is actually the how. How do I do this? How do I drink my water? How do I make sure I’m eating all day, especially if there’s medication in there that might suppress appetite? Or you have a child who, you know, only eats three foods and how to deal with all of those things. So that piece I think is the biggest point. And that also has supported me and my children in that same way, just the way we move through the world and how we approach eating and food. That’s what I do at this point. And I think it’s constantly developing and I love it because we get to be so creative. You know, no two neurodivergent brains are the same. We know that. And so even just getting to get in there and figure out what fits, you know, everyone best based on their life and their schedule and their routine.

Debbie:
I love the way all these like different interests kind of merged and blended. And it’s such a unique specialty, I think. And bringing in the ADHD life coaching with the nutrition piece is really it’s a cool match. So I love that. And if you’re willing to share, I’m curious in your own personal story where you started to implement this in your own life and with your kids. And you notice, wow, this is making a big difference. What was the thing or were there a couple of things that really kind of had a big impact on your own functioning day to day?

Amy Jones:
Yes, there are definitely two specific things. And these are kind of the things that I think my kids now roll their eyes at when I say, but one of them is pairing foods always. So protein, fat, and fiber. I always say PFF is your BFF and they just roll their eyes at me. Because that pairing, even if you’re having an apple, let’s say nothing wrong with apples, apples are great, or berries or something else like that. We need to pair it with something. Not always, but it’s great to pair it with something else that has either protein in it or it has some sort of fat in it, so that we’re gonna get a natural blood sugar increase when we have apple or fruit, or let’s say a chocolate bar. I never say no to a chocolate bar. Just pair it with something. When our blood glucose rises, we want it to, it’s supposed to. That’s great, but if we pair it with something else, it will actually not rise as much as quickly, and then we won’t have such a huge dip afterwards. So I think that’s one of the things I noticed too, especially when I was teaching. And we’re, you know, rushing around on your feet the whole day. And I would sometimes, you know, only have time to have something small, and then I would notice that dip because I didn’t have it paired. And that doesn’t mean you need to have a three-course meal. It just means let’s have a cheese stick with our apple. Super easy, right? We just find one cube of cheese. I don’t know what it could be, anything, right? It could be, you know, a piece of deli meat if that’s what’s accessible. It doesn’t have to be, you know, anything elaborate in that way. Or, you know, a couple of almonds or one almond. It doesn’t have to be, you know, a huge thing. So that is, I think, the first one. And the other one is my eating pattern throughout the day, consistently throughout the day, even when I’m not hungry. I always think to myself, and also my kids know this too, it’s like we have to take our food medicine because that is what’s going to keep that blood glucose level a little bit more stable. We’re eating just little things throughout the day. I have a client who said to me the other day, my husband thinks I’m a bird. I was like, why? She said, because now I have these little bowls of pumpkin seeds and nuts and other things in every room, in the bathroom, in her bedroom. And she’s noticed it has made a complete difference. So even she has a great breakfast in the morning, she found that she actually needs something before breakfast, like just something. So she’ll have, you know, a couple of nuts or seeds, even just when, you know, she gets out of the shower. It’s right there. It’s not the whole bowl, it’s just something. And in terms of mood, in terms of you know, the brain fog that a lot of us go through, especially in perimenopause, can be really supportive. And really supportive for our kids as well. So we’ve built in some systems, especially for my youngest son, to make sure that he’s eating throughout the day at school because that can be difficult as well.

Debbie:
When you were first kind of explaining your own journey to kind of, you know, realize that it’s one thing to have the information, it’s another to implement it. I was thinking, yeah, we years ago had worked with a nutritionist and it was super helpful and we learned so much. And it was all falling on me to kind of make sure that the supplements were taken and the foods, like it was so much. And I just got overwhelmed. I was like, I can’t, this is too much for me to manage to keep track of things, try to get my kid to do things. And like it really taxed my own systems and abilities. And so I didn’t stick with it. Like I didn’t have the energy really to get my kid to stick with it. So could you talk a little bit more about that? Why typical food advice doesn’t really necessarily work for neurodivergent families.

Amy Jones:
Yeah, especially if the person who all of this falls on also is neurodivergent. That’s, you know, it just becomes a whole other layer. Definitely, you know, it’s tapping out our executive function, which is already something, especially if you have a family, is going to not be great. In terms again, it can be for it could be your memory, just remembering, right? It could be transitioning to a new routine can be really difficult for a parent who has to, you know, have all of this fall on their shoulders. But then now we’re introducing something new that our child may not necessarily want to, you know, collaborate with us on. There can be resistance there. And then there’s that just again turning it back around to our own ability and our own level of executive function that we may have even available at those times. So often, you know, if it’s in the morning, if we haven’t eaten because there’s a big rush to get them out the door, but now we’re taking this vitamin, where does it go? When do we take it? And then the same thing in the evening, if we have to add things into your child’s diet or your diet, that’s really hard to do in the evening because we’re pretty much spent, right? Especially if we haven’t been consistent throughout the day already. Or we’ve forgotten other things, we’re already frustrated, and then now we’re trying to force something down someone’s throat. That’s not going to happen, right? We know that especially with younger children, they’re gonna put on the brakes and say, no way. So, and then that’s just us. Then we feel bad. We feel so much shame around the fact that we couldn’t implement, even though we know how important it is, right? So there’s a lot of guilt and shame there too, especially for the person who it all falls on. But it’s really about, you know, building those shifts that we want to very slowly, like micro shifts into our routine and attaching them to something else we’re already doing. Yeah, and making it more visible, make it easy. Like that’s sort of what my MO is, like how do we make this easy? You know, if you could wave a magic wand, how do we make it happen? What would it look like? Let’s figure this out so that it actually works for you instead of just here, you need to do all of this stuff, you know.

Debbie:
I’d love to talk a little bit about what you see as some of the biggest challenges, especially for ADHD folks and kids when it comes to food. And we could, you know, maybe starting with medication, because that is something that a lot of our kids are on. We know that that can impact appetite. So let’s start there and then I’d love to hear some of the other things that you’re navigating with your clients.

Amy Jones:
Yeah, so definitely medication, you know, for adults and for kids, often if we’re thinking about stimulants in particular, definitely we know the side effect can be the suppression of appetite. And I know you’ve already discussed interoception at length in the past as well, but our already our interoceptive awareness is a little bit dulled. And then we add medication on top of it and we don’t even hear that hunger signal at all. And then we may or may not eat throughout the day or eat little bits, and then that’s when our child comes home after school, or we pick them up and they’re a mess because that inconsistent eating pattern has, yeah, like our appetite has literally just dropped off for the entire day, and then it comes back with a rage, right? At the end of the day. And then that often looks like behavior, but it’s actually just fuel in that sense. And the same thing happens for us, especially if we are neurodivergent parents ourselves and we’re on medication. That same thing will happen to us. And so we’re all trying to manage what is happening at that particular moment of the day, which is that nobody has any executive function left. We’ve spent it already, but we also haven’t fueled. And so we layer that on top. So it’s not just about even trying to conserve our executive function throughout the day. We are not even aware of where we’re at in terms of capacity to do the things we need to do, even just to feed ourselves. So that’s where it can all come into play and be a huge struggle. And that’s sort of what I mentioned earlier as well, in terms of reframing some of this, and around fuel and food. Thinking of it as fuel, definitely. Thinking of it as taking your medicine, one bite, two almonds or something, one bite of your granola bar, right? Something that, you know, especially if it’s for our children, what will they eat? I’m not asking you to make them eat kale. I am saying, what will they eat? Is it chips? Is it a piece of a chocolate bar? Awesome. Let’s do that. Let’s get it into them. Then once it’s in, they’ve settled. We’ve got the glucose back up to our brain because that’s what it was looking for. Then let’s pair it with something else. So then that’s when we ask, you know, what protein, we don’t even, I wouldn’t even ask at that point. I would just hand them something. And if they don’t want it, that’s okay too. But really taking out as many decisions as possible in those moments when that medication wears off, and then pairing it after. What will they eat? That’s what I mean by, you know, this idea of how do we make this easy? It’s not about what you should eat. What will you eat? And then let’s pair it after to balance it so that that glucose doesn’t rise too high too quickly and then crash again because then we’re right back in the cycle. And often that’s what we see, especially after school, depending on, you know, whatever the routine is.

Debbie:
Yeah, I was gonna ask, is that kind of one of the most common challenges? Because I think about my kid again, you know, who’s now not home and so, you know, was home all summer and I was like, have some protein in the morning, have some protein in the morning. Like it was like a broken record because my child really loves a good pastry and a good, you know, chocolate croissant and things like that. And sometimes I’m just like, just eat something, right? Cause, you know, my kiddo is tiny, like doesn’t, we’ll forget to eat for an entire day. We’ll get really hyper focused on something. And then it seems like, you know, then you get to a point where, you know, I know what I’m like when I’m hungry. I know when I’ve reached that point, I’m like, my God, I just need to eat something. But oftentimes our kids don’t realize that that’s what’s going on. And is it really about the glucose? Like it, I mean, maybe that’s simplifying it too much, but is that kind of one of the biggest challenges that you see?

Amy Jones:
Yes, yes. Like I think this is, you know, when I give my intake forms, I’m looking for, you know, health history, but also symptoms. So the symptomatology of this, to really understand what might be going on in terms of nutrient balance. It all, number one, the number one struggle I think, I don’t think there’s a single client I’ve worked with, blood glucose, that basic system is completely the number one flag. So big sirens going off around blood glucose balance. The next one often is gut health. And then the next one is often hormones following that, interchangeably, but it’s always blood glucose to start. And we often see that, especially with younger children in behavior, we see it, it might come out for us as irritability, brain fog, you know, just not being able to make decisions. There’s lots of different ways it can come out for all of us, but we don’t recognize that as hunger. And then we’re already not recognizing hunger because our interoceptive awareness is shut down, either through medication or just because of neurodivergence, we don’t necessarily hear those signals or attune to those signals as strongly as we could. And I think that’s where we end up breaking down is that inconsistent eating pattern. Pairing foods is the major support, the major shift that we make. And that changes a lot of things for most people, I would say. Yeah.

Debbie:
I mean, I like the sound of that because that seems fairly simple and doable. Like and also just kind of breaking it down to here’s like a small tweak you can make that could actually have a big impact. So and you know, as you were talking about having a bar, having that granola bar or something, I think about a lot of our kids will only eat one thing or like three things and then, you know, maybe that’s all they’ll eat. And then suddenly they’re like, no, I don’t want this anymore. And then you’re like, crap, that was like one of my three foods. Right. So can you talk about that, like either sensory preferences or very kind of restricted palates? Like what’s the role of that when it comes to the families that you work with and how do you support them when navigating that kind of thing?

Amy Jones:
Yeah, and that’s so hard. And I think we worry so much, especially as parents, about whether or not our children are getting enough protein, right? Or getting enough variety of nutrients in their diet. And it puts a lot of pressure on us for sure. And our stress, we know very well, has an impact on them, especially around food. So this definitely can happen. You know, around the granola bar thing, I see it all the time. You eat literally half a granola bar or take one bite and then that’s it. They won’t eat anymore. That’s great. They took one bite. But then when they turn around and say, hey, I don’t like this anymore, right? And this cycle of that is very indicative of neurodivergence. Definitely. ADHD, I think I see it more than anything else because of that novelty, and we get sort of bored of something and we need to take on something or try something different or have a different option, you know, looking for that stimulation, both through food, but also, you know, just in life in general. So often, you know, I feel like when we get something new, I shift something in the routine and it feels new again. That’s that same feeling with food. When it comes to you know only eating a certain amount of foods each time at a meal and worrying about that. I think the number one thing I always say to parents is please don’t worry about it. Do not worry. Let’s bring down the stress. If they’re eating something, we’re good. It’s when they’re not eating anything we need to worry. Let’s get them eating something. Often what we talk about, and it doesn’t have to be necessarily around a full dinner table, is just like meal assembly. Like I’ll put some days I’ll put a cupcake tin in the middle of the table and jam it with like a whole bunch of stuff. Like it’s like a snack plate, right? Or a snack option for dinner and everybody just takes what they want. So sometimes that can be really helpful, especially if a child has shifted from what they normally eat and you’re worried about it, but it gives them other options. And us modeling that behavior too. So us eating things that they wouldn’t necessarily eat. We don’t talk about it, we don’t force it on them. We give them the opportunity to try it, either by putting it on the table on a separate plate or something, but they don’t have to. There’s no pressure around that. And that’s really important. That pressure that we put on, I think we put it on ourselves, but we don’t realize it’s being, even if we’re not saying anything, if we’re really worried about it, they’re gonna pick up on that. And often, you know, the other thing is too, is the foods that they will eat are safe for them. They are doing something to help them regulate emotionally, definitely. So I think, you know, I hear this all the time. My kid will only eat, you know, chicken nuggets or whatever it is. Great. That’s awesome. Let’s put something else out there. Let’s keep those chicken nuggets, whatever the safe food is, and then let’s just offer some other things. We’ll just put it out. And I don’t mean let’s try this. Just take one bite. No, we just put it out. And they don’t eat it today. That’s great. Let’s do it again tomorrow. Let’s do it again the next day. It’s consistency over and over and over. And the offering. It’s not about, we need to now, you know, we went and saw a nutritionist and she says we now need to eat this. Like worst, right? Yeah. And stressful for everyone. Like we can’t, you know, there’s so much cognitive load that is attached to that. And especially if it’s around dinner time and our capacity is already low. That child is not necessarily gonna try that. But if it’s offered every day, that child is seeing you or the rest of your family eat those things, that’s different. That starts to kind of seep in somehow. And that’s when we start to see. And we don’t say anything if they pick it up for the first time and we’re all like, you just hold your breath and you don’t say anything and you just wait and you smile and pretend it didn’t even happen. Right. Cause that’s the other thing is they don’t wanna be singled out, right? For trying something like it. Then they will never eat it again. It’s done. It doesn’t matter even if they liked it. So, it’s more about again, the environment, building the environment that is safe, offers safety, offers, you know, whatever it is that they need to regulate in some way. I know even my son, he sits on a bench like at our table, but he’ll often bring a blanket, he’ll put pillows all around him. He needs to feel that safety. He shuts the blind behind him. Like he does a whole thing. Awesome. That’s great. He’s feeling regulated. He will eat, right? Like little things like that that we don’t even realize might be actually going on, you know. Yeah.

Debbie:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s very responsive parenting. And as you were talking about the offering, I think of that too with our kids who may not be wanting to leave their room or do, you know, go outside the house. Like just always offering, like, I’m going for a walk, do you want to join me? Or I’m gonna do this, you wanna join me? And it’s just keep offering because you never know one of these days they might say, yeah, I’ll go with you, you know. And then you just like you said, you just play it cool, like, great, I’ll see you downstairs, you know, just move it right along. Okay, so let’s talk about the parents’ capacity, you know, at mealtime, the end of the day, or just like, I was gonna say burden. I don’t know if that’s the right word, but just that cognitive load, if you will. But just that, you know, these people they always need to eat. And there’s like them, there’s like I have to make sure there’s food and I have to think about what we’re eating for dinner. Like that stuff is so much for a lot of parents, again, many of whom are neurodivergent. And the stakes feel high, it feels important, it’s a big responsibility. So could we talk about that a little bit in terms of how you help families, how you help parents and caregivers figure out ways to navigate meals that would be less of a cognitive load on their executive functioning and all of those things.

Amy Jones:
Yes. This is a huge one. And I think when we sit down and I explain, so part of it is the education that, you know, food or dinner, whatever it might be, is I want to say one million. It’s not literally, but it’s probably like 24 different executive functions rolled into one task in terms of, you know, choosing, deciding, making sure we have the food available, then we have to actually do it. How do we do it? What do we do first? Oh my gosh, I forgot an ingredient. And then, yeah. Or three ingredients. Yes. Or three, yes. And then yeah, now I get to clean it all up and do it all again in like two hours. Like, it’s a lot. It’s so much. And I think when we start to appreciate and understand that and just take a step back for a second, it makes all the difference. So often where we end up, and this I’m a big advocate for this, I do not give anyone a recipe. I don’t think I’ve given anyone a recipe for anything in like years. Because A, we have to toggle in a recipe. We toggle between ingredients and then instructions back and forth. Like they’re not written for neurodivergent brains. And if somebody does want one of those, I will actually write it out in a very different way and it’s visual, the quantities of things are actually in the instructions also, because that just reduces cognitive load, right? That’s what we’re trying to do. So the other thing is meal assembly. So that sort of cupcake tin, especially on a day when we’re exhausted and maybe we didn’t plan anything, that’s a great option. You may have to chop things up. But the idea here is that we would almost build in new routines around every time you’re in the kitchen. So if we’re standing in the kitchen, we’re doing something already, we’re making a coffee, if it’s in the morning, or we’re getting home from work and we have to chop something, chop one other thing that isn’t for that meal, stick it in a clear container in the fridge, on the middle shelf at eye level, or if it’s for your children, whatever eye level it is, put it there. Take all the fruits and veggies out of those lovely crisper drawers, wash them ahead of time if you can, chop them, prepare them. We talk about how to do that, and they go on at eye level in front of you. So they don’t like to go in the drawer and then die a really sad death, because that often happens. When we make things visible and then we add one thing to something we’re already doing. In the kitchen, I’m gonna chop an apple. Often I put it in water with some lemon, let it soak for a second while I’m doing whatever it is I’m doing, and then I chuck it in a container so that it doesn’t brown and I put it in the fridge. Kids can grab it easy. Nobody has to wash it, do anything. Especially for those who may have sensory issues and may not be able to actually eat an apple in their hand. Those are my kids. So that’s sort of something easy to do, right? Or if you’re already chopping an apple, let’s chop a couple and do that. If you’re already cooking chicken, let’s double that batch of whatever it is that you’re making in terms of protein. Keep whatever you’re having for dinner, if that’s what you’re doing it for. The rest of it gets chopped, because you’re there anyway, and goes in a container in the fridge. You can see it. Then the next day, so if we future you as options. So we can assemble, I forgot, I’ve got that chicken that I made whatever day. And then there’s leftover rice here. I can either throw it in a pan. Maybe I’ve got some frozen veggies, big fan of frozen veggies. Chuck them in a pan. You know, if you’re making sauces, same thing, double, no less work. Like we’re actually reducing the cognitive load later because it’s reducing those extra steps that we might have to do something again or try something again. So really thinking about that. Thinking of a refrigerator as a working memory buddy rather than like a storage unit, right? That’s not its job anymore. It now becomes, hey, every time you open the door, it’s like, hey, remember we have this, this, and this and this. Because yesterday you did that, the day before you did this, and the day before that you did that. It’s all here. And accessibility, keeping things visual. Best thing on the planet, especially for kids when they come home from school, it’s there. You don’t even have to think. They don’t have to think. And we just make sure we have those options. So the way that we would design that really is around protein. What do we have for protein? What do we have for fat? What do we have for fiber that’s available and easy and in front of us? Because otherwise we will not eat it. Those are some of the biggest things I think that we often make shifts around. There’s other things around even, you know, kitchen design that we look at too. I think kitchens are designed very poorly for neurodivergent brains. If you’re making a coffee, I want everything that you put in that coffee, unless it has to be refrigerated, like in the same cupboard. Like even a spoon, even whatever it is, it goes there, right? So we sort of rethink so that that way we’re not walking back and forth the kitchen because those things take decisions. Those things, you know, those actions actually cost us parts of our executive function. So that’s where we’re always looking. And again, like I’m giving sort of this is how we approach it. Everything is really about, you know, tailoring it to your environment, your specific routine, who you are, not just somebody else’s tip, trick, or hack, you know? That’s the idea behind it. Yeah.

Debbie:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, a couple things that jumped out at me. One, you said for recipes, you’ve got the ingredients and the instructions, and I never really thought about that and how hard that is. And my kid and me, we like to bake and cook, and our favorite resource is the Joy of Cooking. And the Joy of Cooking is written the way you just described, where it’s like a story. There’s no list of ingredients with amounts. It’s like do this and then put this much in. So there isn’t any toggling back and forth. So I never thought of it that way. And I also love kind of batch, you know, making big batches of things. You know, I know about Ayurveda cooking and I learned how to do that. I know an idea behind that is like you make it fresh each time, but like, okay, I’m still gonna make this stuff, but I’m gonna make a lot of it because then I can have it for lunch for the rest of the week. Like that is a huge time saver for me. I’m wondering if you have any hacks, or I don’t know if hacks is the right word, if you have any suggestions or guidelines or best practices just for even the shopping of, you know, like how do you do it? And are there some guidelines that you have for families?

Amy Jones:
Yes, I think and this is different for everyone. Grocery store overwhelm for me is enormous. So often it’s my husband who does it. Literally offload it if you can to someone else. Or if you can, grocery delivery is lovely. And making a standing order with the basics that you need. So you always have a list. I know a lot of options, especially online, you can do that. You have your standing order. And then there’s something else, like you said, maybe you’re baking this week. You can add those things in. So we’re taking that thinking again out of, you know, just taking it off our plate, putting it somewhere else, offloading it. For me, I think the overstimulation is kind of the issue. And then I get flustered and I can’t remember what I was supposed to do. So definitely a list, but I can say that everybody wants to make a grocery list. We know we should do that. I think for our family, what has worked and helped in terms of, you know, if we have to go physically to the grocery store, we yell at our home system that plays music. I don’t want to say any brand names, but one of those things, we just yell at it and it adds it to an app in our phone. My husband can see it, the kids can add to it. I’m chopping something and I realized I’m out of this. And then I just yell it and it gets on that list. So I don’t have to stop and put it on the list. And then when I’m standing in the grocery store overwhelmed, I just go back to my list. And yes, that does take a certain amount of executive function. It does take a certain amount of forethought to remember to get it on the list to begin with. You know, there’s always tech issues with stuff, but at least it’s something, right? It’s something. And you know, for some people, only shopping for, you know, a certain amount of time is helpful. Only shopping for a certain type of meal is even helpful. Like we’re just focused on one thing. So we’re not thinking about breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, blah, blah, blah. We’re thinking about one meal. And obviously this depends on your, you know, accessibility and your time and all of those things. Can you go back later in the week to get the other things? But if you build it into a routine, you know, on Mondays after whatever it is I do, then I go to the grocery store. I’m only getting this stuff. That’s it. And I leave. You just shut down everything else. It’s unbelievable what it saves. I always think of our executive function as like the battery bar that you see either on your phone or, you know, I always think video games with my kids. It saves so much battery by just limiting, right? Especially when we’re in low capacity mode.

Debbie:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are good ideas. We have a shared list on I think it’s like the notes app or something. And so my husband and I share that and we just keep adding to it. And my husband thankfully is doing the shopping lately. So he’ll just say, what do you need? And I’ll just throw it on there before he goes. But we have found, and because we live somewhere that we don’t have massive supermarkets here in the Netherlands that I have access to. I have a neighborhood kind of small store, and it’s such a different experience. And so we do tend to go more often, but just for like one or two days worth of things as opposed to the overwhelm of all the aisles. Like I used to do that with the carts and all the aisles and try to do everything, and it was like a lot, a lot to manage. So before we hit record too, I was mentioning that one of our things that we’ve done for, I don’t know, it’s gotta have been almost 10 years since these meal kits were a thing. But we have used Blue Apron and HelloFresh. They’ve changed our lives because my only decision is looking at a list and deciding, hmm, what looks good for next week? I don’t have to go grocery shopping. I don’t have to measure anything. I don’t have to, it’s just executing. I can execute fine. Tell me what to do and I’ll do it. And so I’m just wondering your thoughts. Do you find that that is a strategy that works for a lot of the people you work with?

Amy Jones:
Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. I love meal kits. I think they’re great. I think we also look at lifestyle capacity, lots of different things, because even a meal kit can sometimes be too much when we think about it. So it depends. So for you know, even for someone like me, gosh, I live on an assembly of meals throughout the week. And then I block out time to actually make something because I love to cook. I’m a nutritionist, like of course. But I can’t do that every day because it will, I will not survive it because I can’t. I will miss out on something else in my life or not be able to support my children in the way I want to. So those meal kits allow us to do that. I love them. I think they’re wonderful. I use them, I’m constantly suggesting them with my own clients. The other one I love too is pre-made meals that you whack in the microwave. Love those. Awesome. My husband and I have a stockpile in our freezer. So that, you know, depending on what happens, let’s say something happened, kids are upset, whatever it is, we get them sorted, give them, you know, some sort of assembly or whatever their safe foods are that day. And everything else is, you know, going off the rails. And then at least we have that. We always have a backup. So that’s a really important thing. The other thing I love to suggest too is take out. But plan it and take the shame away and take the shame out of it. We know we have a really busy day. Like we did that the other day. We had to go get some new school clothes right after school for one of my kids. The other one was at soccer. We’re picking everybody up. We planned and we made it fun. And everybody got to get whatever they wanted. And we stopped and picked up whatever everyone wanted. Like, use that. That is a wonderful thing. There’s nothing wrong with that. If it’s every single day and we’re eating, you know, not necessarily, maybe it’s McDonald’s or something like that every single day. That’s where we have to make the shift, right? We have to figure what’s going on here and take that step back. And that’s what it is. It’s like what’s going on in your environment that that is the default, right? But you build it in. It’s awesome. Like that’s the whole idea, right? How can we reduce cognitive load? How can we expose our children still to a variety of foods? How can we make sure we’re getting balanced meals? So that meal assembly idea, you know, I love HelloFresh. I think that’s great, you know. And those other meal kits. But again, it’s always where am I today? What is my capacity today? You know, can I even do HelloFresh? Or is this gonna deplete me? And do I have anything else I need to do later on? Or do I have anything in the fridge that I can assemble? You know? I think that’s the thing with HelloFresh that I would love to do, and I know you can add on extra things, is like add on more. Or if you’re at the grocery store, if you already know you’re making this meal for HelloFresh, just, you’re gonna bake some chicken anyway. Let’s get some from the store and throw some olive oil and salt and pepper on it and throw it in the oven with your dinner. And then it’s already in your fridge for lunch the next day, depending on how you design those meals. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Debbie:
Yeah. So many great ideas. And as a way to kind of wrap up, yeah, I’m just wondering if you have kind of one really good bang for the buck kind of thing that you would encourage listeners to consider, like either a different way of looking at something or an actual change they might consider. And then as part of that, like please let listeners know what you offer and how they can kind of connect with you.

Amy Jones:
Yeah. One shift we could make is having more access. If your problem or if your child’s problem is maybe consistent eating or not eating enough or that kind of thing, I would say access. So even if you work from home or wherever it is you work, having access to something that definitely has protein, if there’s a protein option. So it could even be protein bars or granola bars or whatever it might be. Like beef jerky, things like that, something near you, put it out in front of you so that you see it. So that, you know, my client who has nuts and seeds literally all over the house and also in her car and also on her desk at work. And then it’s always there and you see it. It’s out. I think that making it visible is the most important thing. And then I think the biggest shift for me has always just been like that, doing this anyway. What one thing can I do? Not seven, because knowing us, often we can get, woo, I’m gonna chop everything now. Might as well. No, don’t do that. Just do one thing. Otherwise we’re gonna deplete, and get it in the fridge and start building that, you know, working memory support that your fridge should be and not, you know, it’s not just that storage unit. So I think I gave you two there, but I think those were the two biggest ones for sure. Yeah.

Debbie:
Yeah. Yeah. I love the reframe of the refrigerator as your working memory support. I think that’s gonna definitely stick with me. I’m gonna every time I open that door, I’m gonna view things through a new lens. So thanks for that. And then yeah, tell people about what you offer and how they can connect with you.

Amy Jones:
So I have a free guide. It’s called What to Do When Food Feels Like Too Much. So that could be, you know, 3 PM crash or could be in the morning, could be at dinner time. It’s got some really good sort of tips in there. It also gives you a discount to my, it’s called WTF’s for Dinner System. And it’s like a, I know, because literally that’s what I say every day. It has, it’s pretty much a series, it’s almost like just listening to podcasts. So videos, there is some sort of recaps of what’s going on in the videos. If you can’t listen to them, so you can read if you want. There’s a few tools in there to support just to put things into action if you need them, but it’s really more about listening. And again, it’s all reframe. I think that’s the good word for it. Around and even for cleanup and how to tackle that. For some of us, that’s the biggest reason why we don’t eat at all, because then we know we’re gonna have to clean it up. So there’s some good things in there too, but I’m giving your listeners a pretty good discount to that too. So it’s all part of that guide. Yeah.

Debbie:
That’s great. Awesome. Well, listeners, I will have links in the show notes page for where you can find that. And also put your social media places, all the things in that show notes page. And yeah, as you were talking about cleaning up, my husband left town. And I’m always like cooking and I’ll soak the pan and I’ll be like, it’s just amazing. I just soak it and somehow it ends up clean and in the drawer. And Derin’s like, I wonder how that’s happening. But now that he’s gone for a week, I was like, yeah, I don’t, it looks very different in this kitchen when you’re not home. Cause you just gotta, yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do, right? Yeah.

Amy Jones:
I have one of those husbands too. He’s phenomenal. He doesn’t like it when I do the cleanup because he calls it, what does he call it? Like Mount Dishmoor. Because I will pile literally like wet dishes on top of the dry ones. Cause I’m like, I don’t have time to put those away. And I just put the wet ones on top. And then it becomes this mountain. He’s like, it’s one of those days, Mount Dishmore days, is it? Oh my God. Yes.

Debbie:
Yeah. Well, some days that’s what we have capacity for. So I appreciate that. Well, thank you. This has been a really interesting conversation. Lots of again, food for thought and tips and ideas. I appreciate everything you shared today. Thank you.

Amy Jones:
Thank you. This has been so fun.