A Conversation with Dr. Destiny Huff About Neuroaffirming Advocacy in School

Debbie:
Hey, Dr. Huff, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Hi, thank you for having me.

Debbie:
I’m happy you’re joining me. I learned about your work through some members of my community. I put a note out to everyone. was like, who do you want to hear from? And your name came up multiple times. So I dove into your work, checked out your new book, and I was very excited that you accepted my invitation to join me. So I have already read your formal bio. So listeners have heard your credentials and things, but I always like us to kind of tell me a little bit about their personal why and kind of, yeah. the work that you’re doing in this space that you’re in, how you came to be doing that.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so I am a late-diagnosed autistic with ADHD and I’m a mental health therapist, certified trauma therapist for children and adolescents, as well as a non-attorney special education advocate and mother of two neurodivergent learners. And I actually got into the advocacy space and the disability space when my oldest son entered into the public school system undiagnosed in the state of Louisiana. And so my husband’s active duty military at the time I was working with, as I call them, the little So I was going into the child development centers and supporting staff and working with learners. And I always say I had a preconceived idea and a stereotypical view of what autism looked like. And so my son had all his milestones. He’d been trying to read since he was two. you know, just all these things. And I looked for support for him as he was going to the school system because I’ve worked in the school settings, I’m other sister educators and I was like, you know, hey, I want to meet with the counselor and this person and that person so we can come up with a plan because he’s got some perfectionistic thinking and looking back it was every time we transitioned to a new center because he because again we’re military so every two to three years we moving was we’d have a little bit of hiccups then they build a relationship with him we work together with the teacher and we’re good. But it started off with a lot of phone calls, write-ups, all these things. And then they suspended him three times in two weeks back to back. So he’d return and get suspended. And they were trying to label him as something he wasn’t. And I always say, I’m game for labels as long as they’re the correct ones. And so my husband went above them to the superintendent. And I went and found an advocate on the base. But I also sought out a clinical and educational psychologist. And they were like, He’s autistic. And so we got him a horrible IEP and we were moving. So we were like, fine, just make it. And then when we moved, we got him a great one and he built relationships and he found his love for school again. And during that time, I sought out my diagnosis. So knowing that my husband would not be available, I had shifted my career to run my private practice full time. And then I was told you can advocate. And so as I was immersing myself in it, I was like, you know, I am going to become an advocate and start Destiny Health Consulting because no family should go through what we went through. And so that’s, you know, my long-winded answer of how I got into this space.

Debbie:
Mm-hmm. Well, you know, you’re such the perfect person to be doing this work because you have experience in all the different lanes. So you can approach the work through your lived experience, through your professional experience. And that’s what we need. Right. And I think that’s why your voice is so powerful in this space. And I need to circle back to something that you said. You said you got a horrible IEP. What’s a horrible IEP? How would you define that?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so IEP is an individualized education program. I always stress it’s program, not plan because it’s supposed to be an educational program that’s individualized for the learner and What’s a horrible IEP is at first they said that? He didn’t have any pragmatic struggles. So anyone that knows what pragmatics is what speech therapists will assess, speech language pathologists will assess. And it’s looking at those social dynamics and interactions, collaborative problem solving, self-advocacy, and because he could speak. So I was like, I’m not quite sure how the two are connected. Like, I don’t understand what that has to do with him entering social situations. The other thing was they said he couldn’t be autistic because he could speak. So he also was put under the developmental delay category, even though they initially had broached the topic with us about autism and he even brought that category of eligibility for us to look at because they weren’t in agreement with that because he was so advanced quote unquote. And so we just knew it wasn’t really representative. knew that they were really giving it to us because of quote unquote behavior and that they maybe hadn’t done their due diligence. I want to give the psychologist credit because she was the one to really say, I’m seeing anxiety, I’m seeing perfectionism. She was seeing all the things we were seeing, but she also had to check that school district versus school box in that I’m not in this school every day, right? So she’s like, I don’t want to encroach on. those that are in the building. And the other side of that was his teacher was amazing. And he actually went through three teachers his kindergarten year because they all quit because the district was not a good district. So when I say a horrible IEP, mean, it doesn’t reflect the learner’s needs. The assessments are kind of skewed and more subjective based. And then the category is not really reflective of the learner.

Debbie:
OK, yeah. Yeah, and I think what you’re describing is the experience that so many listeners go through with their kids. mean, we did three schools in three years, so a little bit of a longer process than you did. But still, that trying to find a fit and the focus on behavior is kind of where it tends to be with really little kids, especially because that’s when it’s like, this is perplexing and we’re not understanding what’s going on here. I’m wondering for you, You said you got your diagnosis after your son did. But what was that shift like for you when you started looking at your son’s experience in school in a different way and were trying to figure out how do I work within the system? And you must have gone through some kind of an identity adjustment there.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so it’s kind of two parts. The first part is that everyone who knew me and my son, like we were two sides of the same coin. I mean, everyone was always like we were the same people. And so we spent a lot of his early years like one to two to three, like just me and him because dad was deployed twice. And so everyone always said we were the same person. So when the conversation came up with autism and me and dad started to look into it and research it, we really were like, we think we missed it, one, because we had a stereotypical view, and two, because we would always just say he was just like me. And so we never made that connection outside of it, because I, and I tell everyone this, I’m late to I know, so I wasn’t on an IEP, wasn’t on a 504. My mom could tell you, like, I was reading by time I was three. Like, there were all these things looking back. But it was like, and I always tell people when it comes to my diagnosis that I get asked like, they’re like, do you wish you would have had it sooner? And I’m like, I think I would have wished I had it as an adult. I don’t think I would have wished I had it sooner in childhood because being a millennial, there was a lot of restriction to beliefs of what you were capable of. And so I do think, I think my parents would have been like, no, she can do anything. But I do think they would have fought against some resistance for that.

On the other side of that, when it comes to the diagnosis, and this is when my ADHD is kicking in, I talked a little too long and I think I forgot what I wanted to say.

Debbie:
I completely relate so you can move on or you can take as long as you want. Up to you.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
We were talking about the diagnosis and finding that out.

Debbie:
And your identity if that kind of shifted when you shifted to being more of an advocate and that role change.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Oh yeah, and so I think the other side was I worked with children and adolescents my whole life or as a professional, a whole professional life. And when it came to my son, I think one of the things that I had, I had the professional, like you said, of like knowing what was quote unquote considered typical and not typical behavior, but also I had the mental health diagnoses part. And so they were quickly trying to label my son as oppositional defiant. And I don’t even believe in that diagnosis as a clinician. But I think that I really was like, and so what took the shift for me in trying to collaborate and figure out about this system was that after me and my husband got through that shame, right, because you’re being called about your child, you’re basically being told your child is not an act and you’re not a parent. And after we were able to regulate and be like, wait a minute, that’s absolutely not true, was when I reached out to social workers that I had worked with in the school setting that were now over behavior programs. I was more transparent with my family because my mom and sister are educators. And that’s when the people that I feel like do the job were going, no, Destiny. They’re not handling that right at all. And that, I think, I don’t think everyone has that. And that made me comfortable to push back. It made me more comfortable because my husband was already like, they’re trying to put him out. We need to do X, Y, Z. And I felt like because he hadn’t worked in a school and because he had some negative experiences himself growing up with educators, that that was coloring his perception. And was more like we both were, we both. were really on opposite ends of the spectrum. Like I was like, it can just be collaborative. And he was like, we can burn the whole thing down and we needed to like meet in the middle. But I think for me that shift really happened when I actually got comfortable and pass that shame and guilt and talked to the professionals who do the job every day. And I just remember something my sister said that really stuck out to me. There’s two things. My sister said, they are calling you to do their job and they need to figure out how to support him. And hearing that from an educator who had been in schools for years, I was like, oh. And then my friend that was a social worker, when we were working together, she was a social worker at the middle school I was at. And then she, by time my son was older and we were talking, because she had met him when he was like one. So at this point he was five. She was actually over the program for the district that problem solved behaviors and things like that. And when she laid out for me, okay, well, when I have a child that you’re saying that they’re saying is X, Y, Z, and I would say he wasn’t even, not that it matters, but he wasn’t hitting staff, he wasn’t hitting kids. It was one of those situations where he gets so dysregulated, like he could clear a classroom, but he never was, you know, like physically striking anyone. And so when I was laying it out for her, she said, oh, are they doing X, Y, and Z? Like, essentially it was like a checklist. I was like, they’ve never done that. And she’s like, they’re not doing their job. So those two things were the pieces that made me go, okay, something needs to change and we need to do something different.

Debbie:
Yeah. Yeah, so relatable. And that idea of parents thinking the teacher should have the answers, and then the teachers are coming to us, and we’re already kind of maybe scrambling to get things working. And we’re like, no, wait, we need guidance from you. So yeah, so a lot of times I see that too, teachers kind of relying on the parents to figure things out when it’s really their job. 

So you’ve just kind of explained how you navigated this in your own life and kind of changing roles to being that advocate. And I know that’s now the work that you do and you support families in navigating systems. So would you tell us a little bit about how that works, what that looks like when you’re helping families?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, and before I answer that, we were talking about how sometimes teachers will come to parents for the answers and then parents are expecting teachers to have the answer. And with our particular situation that led to me being an advocate, it was a little different in that the administration seemed very friendly. No, he doesn’t need this. No, he doesn’t need that. And then what I realized was that it was because they were assuming that everything he was doing was a choice. Because we asked we were like does he need an IEP does he need a functional behavior assessment plan does assessment does he a behavior intervention plan it was like no but as we figured out later is because they felt it was a choice and so what happened was the teacher and I were working really well together so they used class dojo and so her and I were communicating and I was providing resources and she was implementing them and giving me feedback and then once my husband went to the superintendent there was a period where we didn’t speak us and the teacher and as I found out it was because they were telling her not to speak to us and so and when she had decided to leave the district she was like yeah I’m going to speak to you all because I’ve decided I’m going to leave and because of issues that she was having within the district. And so there’s also that issue where parents and teachers are trying to collaborate and work together. And administration can be the hindrance and administration can be playing both sides. And I think that’s what was happening there when we were being told, we understand and this is a misrepresentation and that’s not really happening. But then I think that the teacher was subsequently being told. that we weren’t doing our part as parents. And so, if we hadn’t had that communication, we wouldn’t have been able to lead through that.

Debbie:
Yeah. Before you then go on to my other questions. And now we’re going to have to keep circling back, but we’re going down a different rabbit hole here, but Hannah, let me get my train of thought. Why do you think it is or in your experience that there is such kind of a disconnect? Is it under resource? Is it under education? Is it a combination of things? Like what are some of the biggest barriers that you’ve seen in terms of administrators, teachers, these systems being able to accurately support our kids?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Both. They’re underfunded, they’re understaffed. They don’t get professional development on disabilities. I actually was able to have a conversation like in comment form on my Instagram platform with a retired educator. And she was saying that special education teachers and general education teachers actually used to get more exposure to how to support disabled learners. And she was like, and their PD used to actually be geared towards those topics, like when they get surveyed or asked, what do you want to see? And then one standardized testing took over. It became more about standardized testing, classroom management, and it got away from the pieces that they actually needed. But also, it was pointed out that They didn’t need quite as much education necessarily on certain topics because at younger stages there was a lot more socialization, relationship building, there was play. And so a lot of those peer interactions, staff and learner interactions were already happening and so you weren’t seeing as many behaviors as they went up. because they were facilitating that in the classrooms. Now we know kindergarten is like second grade curriculum now. So it’s very different, they’re not getting those interactions. So I think it’s a combination, but most of the educators I talk to now, they will say, I don’t receive any training on how to support disabled learners, and I’m a Gen teacher, and 85 % of the kids in my class have an IEP.

Debbie:
Yeah, wow. Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s, it just seems like the whole, I mean, it’s just like your husband said need to burn it all down. Like it does seem like the, you know, there needs to be so much heavy lifting to get these systems to change, which now will circle back to the work that you do, because you do, you’re very invested in supporting families in navigating special education services and the IP process and all of that. So could you talk a little bit about where your kind of passion lies in the work that you do and how you work with families.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so first I always wanted to be an educator, actually. And my mom was like, no. And then she let my sister, because I’m the oldest, which is funny. And I asked her a few weeks ago about that. And she was just like, I think it’s because at the time, because my dad was military also. So we would move and she would change jobs. And she’s like, I think at the time when you asked me, I wasn’t making a lot of money. She was like, so I think that’s why I told you. She’s like, I really don’t even know why I told you that. So I love the teaching aspect. So one of the things that I do with my consulting business is I train schools and organizations. And I train them on how to be neuroaffirming. So neuroaffirming is honoring the disabled learner. It is honoring all forms of communication. It’s recognizing intersectionality. And basically, like my friend Cheryl Poe from Advocating for Kids, Inc. said, it’s caring, right? You’re not trying to fix the disabled learner. You’re trying to support them and make environments more accessible. And so that’s one piece of my consulting business that I love doing. And so I speak and present at conferences, but I also do trainings for communities and things like that. The other piece is that I do virtually attend IEP meetings. and 504 meetings all over the United States. And I’m physically located in Georgia, but I do have families all over. And so I will review, I do IEP reviews, know, review the documentation, give feedback for them to take back to their team, but I also help them draft parent input statements, help them draft parent concern or parent input letters, as well as it’s in IEP meetings virtually. And that just came from realizing as a parent, when I really dove into special education, that a lot of parents don’t know their rights. They don’t know what to look for. And they do trust the professionals that are in the school setting to support their learner, but also recognizing that a lot of the staff at the school setting don’t even know. And I’ve had many times run up into a meeting and a compliance specialist or a special ed director has said something as if it’s fact. And I’m like, no, that’s your district’s practice. That’s actually not your state’s law. And so having those conversations, I just ultimately started it all because I felt no family should go through what we went through. And I think that I’ve, I always say one family at a time and my husband says, you know, you’re changing one IEP team at a time. So that’s really my goal.

Debbie:
Totally, I believe that so much that every parent who’s in the trenches advocating is paving the way for the student after that to be received or understood maybe a little quicker or, you know, it all ripples out. And I wanna mention your book, you have a great resource, it’s called Neuroaffirming Advocacy, a Neuroaffirming Guide to Special Education Advocacy. And I’ll have a link to that in the show notes pages. But it’s a great resource and you had, First of all, was like, the details that you explain are the things that make my brain hurt. And I just was thinking, I’m so glad that Destiny is doing this work for parents. You have templates for writing that parent input statement, which I’ve never, I don’t think I ever even wrote one. I didn’t know what I was doing when I was parenting a young kid in the public school system. And I had what was quote unquote a decent IEP, someone told me, but I didn’t even know what that meant. But now many years later, I know it actually wasn’t a decent IP at all because it was focused on compliance. Right. So can you talk about that compliance versus you talk about meaningful support versus most of what schools are trying to do or IEPs are trying to do is, is really focused on compliance.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so when we talk about compliance, we’re talking about looking through a behavior lens versus that neuroaffirming lens, which looks at access, essentially. And so most IEPs are written for the adults, and they are written to, quote unquote, fix the disabled learner. They’re trying to make them less disabled. And one of the things when I step into an IEP meeting that I always start off with my introduction is I’m Dr. Destiny Huff. I’m late-diagnosed autistic and ADHD. I’m a mental health therapist, non-serving advocate, parent of neurodivergent learners. I give that spiel to let them know all of the hats and pieces I bring into the room. And so that when I say things, I’m not just saying them. And so a lot of IEPs that I get, will still and people will always be shocked by this. I’m like in 2026, I’m still seeing eye contact goals. Right. I’m still seeing where we’re asking disabled learners to make eye contact, which completely disregards what we have learned, which is that if they’re focused on making eye contacts, they’re not actually listening or receptive to what you’re telling them. Right. But I still see that. And so oftentimes when I get IEPs, I always will tell parents a lot of times the they’ve checked the IDEA, which is Individuals with Disability Education Act compliance box, as far as addressing all the needs, right? So when the school does their evaluation, they are required to address the areas of need, either through goals, services, or accommodations. And I’ll see that. But then when we start digging in, it’s very compliance based. It’s very much what the child needs to do, is expected to do, and disregards the support they need to do it. or how they’re going to access it and who’s going to teach it. And that’s often where I find myself rewriting. So the biggest portions that I rewrite in IEPs is the goals. I’ve had, I have a meeting coming up where we basically wrote a parent input letter and then I said, we will be attaching a goal document. And so we have all these questions asking for each goal, each section, and then a lot of times we’ll get in the meeting with the staff and we’ll rewrite together. That’s how I come across that.

Debbie:
Mm-hmm. That’s great. Okay. So one of the things I want to just touch upon is this word of neurodiversity affirming, neurodivergent affirming, and you have neuroaffirming in your title. And that’s something I feel like I’ve saw stuff on your social media about this too, like that word has somewhat been co-opted, I think, among therapists and others who don’t really have a true understanding of what that means. So could you give us some more examples of what a truly affirming IEP might feel like or look like compared with a traditional one.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so a truly affirming IEP focuses more on teaching the skill while also providing the support. So for example, a lot of times when we talk about regulation, you’ll see in an IEP goal and in an IEP that they will self-regulate, self-regulate, self-regulate. I don’t have an issue with self-regulation. But often in order to self-regulate, we have to first co-regulate. And so seeing co-regulation is a sign to me that we’re getting on the right track. Similarly, if I see an IEP where a lot of my ADHD learners, there’s that executive functioning piece. And I will see nothing in there about executive functioning. But I will see they will initiate this task within five minutes of teacher prompt. And I’m like, OK. I’m like, so what tasks? Like, well, all tasks. So they don’t initiate any tasks, right? So it’s like, you know, what are they going to use? What tools are they going to use? So do they need a checklist? Do they need check-ins? Do they need a fidget tool? It’s what support are you going to provide? So that’s another thing. Another piece is for a lot of my learners who are speech and language. I will see where it’s like they will verbally express a need to do x, y, and z. They will verbally ask for a break. They will verbally say they need help. Verbally this, verbally that. And I’m like, so we’re not honoring all forms of communication. So I will have those schools rewritten to say use of multimodal communication. Some schools use total communication. I’m not a fan of that, but then I will have them specify in parentheses what that means. And they will say like nonverbals, gestures, AAC, writing. So seeing that they’re honoring all forms of communication, those are some of the three areas. Well, I’ll say four. Communication, executive functioning, sensory. That’s the one that I left out, sensory, and then co-regulation. When I see those dressed in the IEP, I start to feel like, okay, we’re getting somewhere. We’re on the right track. We might just need to fine tune and ask some more questions to get it more specific to what we’re looking for.

Debbie:
Do you find that schools, you know, you’ve been doing this work for a little while now and presumably you’re working, you said you work with families all over the country. Do you find that there is movement in terms of, you know, I think of co-regulation, like that is such a powerful tool, right? That a lot of teachers don’t recognize that there’s like a collective nervous system of the classroom and how they can really lead that. Are you seeing more awareness and willingness to incorporate this language and not just incorporate the language, but actually lean into doing this work and showing up for kids this way?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
I am, I am. I’m seeing a lot of times what I see is, of course, as an advocate, once I get into the meeting, of course there’s always, there’s an advocate. My approach is to ask questions. And so what I’ve seen is that I’m not coming in going, you’re doing this wrong, this is ableist, you need to rewrite this. I’m coming in like, tell me what you’re seeing. Tell me what you’re doing. Tell me why you’re doing that. And often then when I’m able to add that additional perspective or get their understanding and dig deeper, they realize, okay, you really are being collaborative. You’re really trying to understand and you’re trying to support everyone. This is not what you did wrong. I think that’s when you get the most traction, you know, is that I come in and I’m like, I’m not in there. So I’m genuinely asking, you know, and a lot of times they feel more at ease and like, okay, you are getting my perception. And so then I do see those shifts. do. I recently did a training for paraprofessionals, part one and part two up in Illinois and the administration then it was a PD and they then shared the content from that with their special educators and the special educators came back and said, oh, we follow Dr. Hough on social media. And so because of that, they were very responsive to what we had communicated to the paraprofessionals because obviously, like we told the paraprofessionals, it should feel like it’s your classroom too, but sometimes there is that dynamic of it’s the teacher’s classroom. And so, but because they were receptive, it made it more collaborative and for them to be able to implement the things we discussed from a neuroaffirming standpoint. So yeah, I definitely see traction. definitely see movement. A lot of times to me it’s just about not knowing.

Debbie:
Yeah, right. Makes total sense. Let me ask you a question that comes up a lot in my community. That is, and you talked about this before, that schools often interpret a child who’s quiet or compliant that they might think, well, this kid’s fine. They’re doing well at school. We don’t see an issue here. And then the parents, you know, the kid comes home, they’ve been masking all day. They fall apart. The parents are like, my kid is not okay. And The cost for them to be in this classroom is really high, but they don’t know how to communicate that with the school. How do you navigate that specific scenario?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
One of the things I say is that parents don’t realize that they collect data. You’re collecting data all the time. Your child takes an extra hour to get out the door. Your child does not want to go into the school building. Your child is constantly going to the nurse’s office sick. Your child struggles every Monday morning because they’re going to have to go mask. Your child is refusing to do homework. Your child is anxious and not sleeping. All that is data. And what I always say is that where parents can mess up unintentionally, because they don’t know and they shouldn’t have to know, but this is the system we’re in, they don’t know how to connect that back to school. And I tell parents, I’m like, write it down. I tell parents, write it down like, hey, I struggled to get my kid to school every morning, every single solitary morning, because what happens is eventually that is going to bleed over into the school. Okay? I can’t get my kid to do homework. Can’t get my kid to do homework, right? They’ll say that. like, they will not like, we can’t do homework when they come out. Like they spend the whole evening decompressing. That’s data. And when you put that in black and white to the school, they are required, if you’re learners on an IEP, to try and address that. Similar to a child find, right? If they don’t have an IEP or 504 and you’re like, think they need to be evaluated. The school is required to do their due diligence. They’re required to acknowledge that request. And it doesn’t look too hot when what the parents thought would happen happens and they can’t access school. And then the school is like backtracking like, let’s do that. I always just say document what you’re seeing, communicate it, those emails, that’s documentation.

Debbie:
Mm-hmm. OK, great. Thank you. So let me ask, and we’re going to wrap up soon, but I wanted to ask about self-advocacy because we’re, parents, doing this. And then we ultimately want to kind of pass the baton to our kids and have them grow up knowing who they are and what they need and to know how to ask for it. Can you talk a little bit about how we can support our kids in becoming their own best advocates?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, so first they got to know that they have a disability. I have come across that so many times where, and I try and like kind of cautionary tale my parents with this. I have had middle school learners who will not access their services. because their peers make comments about those kids in special education and they did not know that they were a kid in special education. Because remember special education as a service is not a place. So they could have been getting their services in a genetic classroom this entire time. Okay. And I’ll have high schoolers who I had a bilingual school psychologist who was discussing how she’ll go and her high schoolers and they’ll be like, I’m autistic? They didn’t know when she’s going to do the re-evaluation that they were autistic. They didn’t know they had this IEP. They knew they saw them as such and such for whatever reason, but they didn’t know. So one, to help them self advocate, you have to educate them on their disability because when you hide it, it makes it seem like it’s something for them to be ashamed of. And a lot of parents would like to make that connection, but that’s one. Two, you have to create a space for them to be comfortable to talk about it, right? For them to ask questions. I know when my son was first diagnosed at five, we immediately found a book and we read it to him. We read it to his brother who was three at the time, so two years apart. And I remember it wasn’t until my son was probably seven or eight. he came home and was like, I’m autistic. Yes, like we’ve been and I say that because parents, know, some parents even hear that like you might do the whole like we did the whole thing of like, and we like, I made I had a shirt made and we all were shorts, for autism, like we were like, you’re like, this is we’re not gonna be ashamed around here. He came home one day was like, I’m autistic. And I was like, what? And so when I found another book because my youngest has ADHD. So I got an autism book and an ADHD book and I then went through like how the brain and what that means and have them talk about how they connect to that. And my youngest was actually resistant for a little while of like, he’s like, no, I’m not, don’t want to talk, you know. And I was like, okay. And I gave him the space to feel that way because just cause I’m trying to create this inclusive space, part of being inclusive is giving him the space to fully feel. Now, like even this morning, he just said, I’m ADHD, right? And I’m like, yeah. And so we work on like that, but. To give them the self advocate, you have to teach them about their disability, give them the space to be comfortable, talk about it good, bad, or indifferent. But also don’t enforce your feelings on it. So I think that’s another piece that’s very important. So my kids know they have IEPs. They know if they need something that they can talk to me and they always say, mommy, I know you’re going to get it done. They know, like, I know you’re going to bring it up. But also my oldest, like asked for the first time, said, I want to be in my B-Meeting. Like if you’re talking about me, I want to be there. And now he showed up and he kind of had to be prompted to respond because he was kind of like, because I think he was like, didn’t expect so many adults and you know, whatever. but I, me and dad weren’t wanting him to be in yet. We weren’t quite sure if we should, and he was like, I wanna be in this. So you just really have to have those conversations with them and give them the space and not impart, I’m not a big fan of this is a superpower and all this. I don’t really like that, but to each their own. But you also have to let them. Be mindful of that. There are hard times, there are hard days. And I think that’s what me and my son spend the most time talking about is like how our emotional dysregulation is tied to our thinking when it comes to our autism. And me validating that for him of like, mommy has those days too. And that really helps him feel comfortable to like say that and speak up and ask for things and have those conversations.

Debbie:
Yeah, that’s great. Great. Thank you. OK, I’m going to ask you one last question and then we will wrap up. So what would you say to the parent who is doing everything quote unquote right on paper? They’ve shown up, they’ve been asking, they’re pushing, and they still feel like they’re hitting a brick wall. I’m sure these are families that you work with and they just feel really stuck. I don’t know, advice or words of support would you offer them?

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Get an advocate. And I say that because, and I want to be clear, that does not mean that, like, I have families I support, I don’t attend any of their meetings. I’m just behind the scenes for like their thought partner for us to talk and talk it out and for me to give them insight or to explain something to them or help them write something So that’s it doesn’t mean you have to have them come to the meeting I mean I’ve had so many times where a parent like I help them write a letter and they get asked like You have an advocate and the parents like they keep asking me that and like the parent, you know will be like, you know not comfortable disclosing which they don’t have to because they’re like, you know, I don’t want there to be any pushback or anything, which is fine. And I’m like, that’s not their business. But if you are getting that pushback and you feel like you’re hitting a brick wall, I always say, just like we talk about early intervention for learners, it’s very important that you kind of get that support early on. The other thing is I’ll have people say, well, what if I can’t financially take on that? Understandable. Follow accounts like mine. Follow accounts like Lisa Baskin-Wright. Follow accounts like Advocating for Kids EEC. There’s so many free resources out there. This podcast is one of them. We have me and Lisa Baskin-Wright co-host the Affirming Village podcast where we talk about everything from a neuroaffirming standpoint. But there’s so many free resources that I’ve had families just give feedback where they’re just kind of like. Just hearing that made me know I’m on the right track. And sometimes I think as parents, that’s what we really need. Like even with my son, was, I needed to hear that for a better lack of words, it was them and not us. I just needed to hear that we were doing all the right things, but we did need to escalate it in order to get progress. And that’s to get movement. And sometimes that’s what parents need to hear.

Debbie:
Yeah, totally. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think we ended up working with an advocate for high school and it was so helpful just to feel like, cause I can’t control my emotions when I’m in high stakes situations and I lose all ability to communicate clearly. to have somebody who could kind of, you know, hold the space and say the right things was so helpful as well, and just validating what we were going through. So yeah, I’m gonna just share some resources. So listeners, I’m gonna have a pretty extensive show notes page, including a link to the Affirming Village podcast. Destiny’s website is destinyhaveconsulting.com. That’s where you can find out about her services, her speaking, and then also access her book, the Neuroaffirming Advocacy book, which is great and has like sample letters to write to the school and was just all the things that I wish I had had access to 15 years ago when I was dealing with this. So any last thoughts before we say goodbye? A last word of wisdom, if you will, that you want to leave listeners with.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yeah, the biggest thing I would say is that like, I know I felt like I was alone. And then I realized there were so many parents and so many individuals that were in this space and I’ve been in it for years. And so you’re not alone. And there is in fact somebody who is going through your exact situation. And so I also always recommend when you’re looking for accounts and things to follow, follow one that fits your role. So if you’re a parent or professional. follow one that fits also your learner’s specific disability. I think that’s sometimes where parents can still feel isolated, is that they’re like, well, I have an autistic child that also has Down syndrome. And it’s like, there are accounts out there that specifically talk about navigating that piece. So, you know, find those supports.

Debbie:
Yeah, such good advice. Yes, there’s always someone who understands exactly what you’re going through. And that is so important, especially when you’re in a really, really hard season. So thank you for that. Thank you for coming on the show and for everything you shared. And I hope to continue the conversation with you down the road.

Dr. Destiny Huff:
Yes, thank you for having me.