Educator Lily Howard Scott on Shaping Kids Through Words

Debbie:

Hey there, Lily, welcome to the podcast.

Lily Howard Scott:

I’m so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Debbie:

Me too. I’m looking forward to this conversation. This is one of those conversations where there’s so much synergy and alignment in the work that we’re doing. I’m excited to get into it. And so now with that set up, let’s take a step back. And if you want to just take a few minutes and tell us a little bit about your story and how you came to be just doing the work that you’re doing, kind of your why in this space.

Lily Howard Scott:

Wow, thanks for asking. Well, let’s see. I think now I support teachers and school leaders with literacy instruction and social and emotional learning, but I will always identify as a third grade teacher at heart. I taught elementary school for nearly 10 years and just found kids to be such wonderful company. They’re so, you know, especially kids, second graders, third graders, they’re so unselfconscious and funny and wise and wonderful. And as I taught over the years, I realized that the words and phrases that the kiddos had access to seemed to play a really big role in their ability to self-regulate, in their ability to operate with self-compassion or not, even to find joy in ordinary moments. And that led me to sort of learn as much as I could about language and led to this book. But I’m so happy to be here with you because as an inclusion teacher, as a teacher who supported neurodivergent students, so much of what I know to be true about teaching and learning that you teach the kid, not the curriculum, and that you always make space for kid’s strengths and interests. I learned from being an inclusive teacher. And I think the best part of the book are the poems by my neuro-atypical students. And I’m so glad that those poems have space to breathe now.

Debbie:

Yes. And I will say too, you know, what you’re saying kind of echoes what we’ve heard other guests talk about on the show. And what we believe to be true is that when you use strategies or teachers kind of consider their neurodivergent learners in the way that they’re teaching, all students benefit because we know that kind of the typical, and I’m using air quotes here, the typical way of teaching, you know, there may be some students who can be quote unquote, successful with that model, but it doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily thriving in the way that we want them to.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah, that’s such a good point. Actually, something I’ve been thinking a lot about is that even the kids who look like they’re thriving, even those neurotypical kids who are meeting all the achievement metrics in really glittering ways, that actually I’d argue there’s this own quiet toxicity to their success in school, right? That lesson of, when you comply and achieve in this very specific way, and then the Golden Gates open and you move forward in your school career, that that can really look like success and is success in school. But when they graduate, they haven’t had much practice thinking about their own interests or motivations and definitely can feel like their self-worth is tethered to this glittering achievement. And so sometimes I joke with my colleagues like, who does this work for? It doesn’t actually really work sometimes for the kids who it looks like it’s working for. It certainly doesn’t work for those who really struggle. I think they say B and C students are the ones who are the most successful in the end anyway. So yeah, I totally agree. you are? I’m a solid B student too. So maybe I’m just saying this to validate myself. But yeah, I think that a one size fits all approach to learning fails all sorts of kids in obvious ways and in less obvious ways.

Debbie:

I’m feeling very seen right now as a C student for sure. What I’d like to do before we really get into this is talk about kind of the big picture of your book. listeners, the name of the book is The Words That Shape Us, The Science-Based Power of Teacher Language. Can you tell us about the book and why you wrote it?

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah, so the book is about how subtle changes in language, and I appreciate you sharing, yes, teacher language, but really, I’d argue caregiver language, parent language, that subtle changes in language can initiate a really tectonic shift in the way that kids perceive themselves and their abilities and the way they navigate challenges. And this is because, of course, the way that grownups talk to young kids becomes the way that they talk to themselves. And there are some really groundbreaking recent research about what language can do in this regard. think all caregivers and teachers know that words matter. But Lisa Feldman Barrett wrote this wonderful book, How Emotions Are Made. And in it, she shares that emotions don’t so much happen to us as we make them. They’re just predictions that we make in the micro moment. And the words and phrases kids have access to concede how their brains predict. And I think this truth carries really profound implications and hopeful implications for the ways that we all speak to kids, like particularly as anxiety soars and perfectionist tendency soars, because we can help kids sort of make those shifts in prediction and in really beautiful ways. And I’d be happy to share some examples about how that works.

Debbie:

Yeah. I do want to hear examples of that and talk a little bit more about the why for this book and what you really wanted to get it out into the world to do.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah, well I think that anybody who becomes a teacher, anybody who cares for kids, hopes that the love and the responsiveness that they’re pouring into that relationship will somehow help the kid grow in ways that are healthy and beautiful. And what I find to be, know, my why is rooted in the idea that it’s the smallest moments that end up mattering the most and that all of us have this powerful tool on the tips of our tongue that language isn’t just a tool for self-expression. It’s a tool that transforms what’s happening on the inside. So if we’re all collectively sort of wringing our hands and worried about kids’ mental health and wanting to do what we can to help these beloved, wondrous people in our life, it’s so comforting to know that the words we share with them can matter so much. And so my why is to offer those who care for children a guide that helps them remember, yeah, there’s a lot that’s out of my control, but I can control what I say. And I can give kids these words and phrases that they can tuck away and rely upon later, maybe even for decades to come. I love what Dr. Bruce Perry says about this, that the most powerful and enduring human interactions are often very brief. I find that to be so hopeful that growth for kids comes through the steady accumulation of moments that are like one to two minutes long, that are connected moments and the language we use in those connected moments can sort of reverberate within the kids in our lives in beautiful ways. So that’s my why.

Debbie:

Yeah, that’s great. I love it. yeah, I’d love to, because I want to talk through the way that you’ve broken down the book and the different parts that you share. You mentioned earlier, I could give some examples because I mean, your book is very practical and in sharing these phrases and these terms that can be, again, just subtle shifts, which I love a subtle shift to have a big impact. Like it’s so true. Yeah.

Lily Howard Scott:

What else can we do?

Debbie:

So give us some examples about the kinds of things that you wanted to share with readers.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah. well, there are so many directions we could go. One example I often share that sort of illustrates this shift in prediction is if you could imagine a kiddo who, rooted in previous experiences with caregivers, with teachers, has a brain that is wired to predict, uh-oh, nope, when that kid makes mistakes. That kid wants to look away from the mistake, does not want to sit with it, does not want to investigate it. Maybe that kid has been you know, had a shaming experience in the past. That’s too bad because, you know, we know that kiddos can only learn from mistakes if they have the capacity to sit with them and that can lead to the most powerful cognitive growth of all. But if he has, you know, a second grade teacher or a third grade teacher who at the beginning of the year says, okay, every time you make a mistake, I’m gonna say, what a brilliant mistake. What learning can it lead us to? And I’m gonna say that because when we really investigate our mistakes, new brilliant thinking is available to us. And maybe she shares that example about Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin by investigating a moldy Petri dish he forgot to cap. Because the way we talk to kids becomes the way they talk to themselves, hopefully, well, first the kid will probably look at her blankly and be like, know, will feel like the language is just ricocheting off of him. But hopefully he tucks it away. And when he begins to rely on that language in that moment of noticing a mistake, It’s a brilliant mistake. What learning does it have for me? Lisa Feldman Barrett calls that an energized determination. And the more that the child relies on that language, the more his brain is, it begins to predict differently. And he can meet that moment with a more regulated nervous system and with curiosity, as opposed to with sweaty palms or with a churning stomach. And he can actually bear to sit with the mistake. So that’s a small example of a phrase that a kid can tuck away and rely upon. There’s another one in the book about ishfulness, which is all about sort of talking back to perfectionist tendencies. I have another one in there about wrapping words around your inner voice, like your truest, kindest, most you part of you, which as one third grader told me, I didn’t know I had that wise part of me. Like if you can name it, it exists. An important thing I want to mention is these are all suggestions. Hopefully, kiddos and teachers and parents, you know, adapt the language and make it their own. It’s not a script at all.

Debbie:

Yeah. No, I love that example you shared. I had that written down here. What a brilliant mistake. What learning can you find in it, especially because of the fact that just knowing the, of course, no two neurodivergent kids are the same, but many of them are perfectionistic. Many of them do really place kind of their identity and value based on their intellect, or many of them have experiences of being shamed for making mistakes or doing it wrong quote unquote, wrong. There’s a lot of air quotes in this episode. But so I do love that example, what a brilliant mistake. Just kind of imagining the impact when that language is introduced at such a young age and it does become part of that internal dialogue instead of, know, I’m broken, I’m a screw up, you know, which can so often be the root for so many of our kids.

Lily Howard Scott:

Totally, and I also think it gives the kiddo some agency, right? I think that we forget how often kids are just, they’re just told what to do all day, right? By teachers, where to stand, where to sit, what page to open their book to, by parents, I do it. Like, I tell my young kids, you have to take a bath, you have to wear a coat. And so I think when they, you know, I think it makes sense that when a thought enters their brain, like, I’m the stupidest, or everyone’s gonna laugh at me, or oh, I’ll never be able to get this right. It sort of feels like it’s just one more thing happening to them in the ocean of things happening to them all day long. And the notion that actually we have some agency inside of us, like as David Foster Wallace says, learning how to think means learning how to choose what to pay attention to in your own head. When that visitor pops by, having that language like, nope. If I investigate it, there’s brilliance there. A way to kind of talk back to that thought. think, yeah, just gives kids a little agency they didn’t realize that they had in the first place.

Debbie:

Okay, so in the book, you kind of break it down into four parts and I’d love to spend a little time with each of them. So the first one is establish and maintain a connected classroom. So of course I love connected classroom, feels relationship based. How do you define a connected classroom?

Lily Howard Scott:

Thanks for asking. I think I would define it as a classroom in which all kids feel uniquely known, heard, and valued. it’s funny, all of the strategies really there for a connected classroom could also be true for a connected home. What I’m about to say is not true for a home is only specific to a school. But what I find so strange is the way that those far away from the classroom policymakers are so focused on achievement without understanding that of course how kids feel is tethered to how they do. And when kids feel connected to each other and to their teacher in the classroom, they’re able to take all sorts of risks and certainly operate with more resilience than in disconnected classrooms. So it really goes hand in hand with academic learning too.

Debbie:

Can you give us an example of a way that a teacher… First of all, I love the word. I love that you said helping all kids feel known, like to feel known. What a powerful concept, right? To just be seen in that way. Give us an example, if you would, of how a teacher can really help to maintain this sense of connection in a classroom? Is there like a phrase or a strategy or tool that you can share?

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah, there’s so many. I think one of them is, well, first of all, to your point, it’s amazing how often we don’t feel known at school and how strange that is, right? When one doesn’t feel known, it’s just infinitely harder to take those risks again that lead to meaningful learning. So thank you for that. I think that something that can feel radical to kids is a teacher saying something like this. You know, I have taught in this room before and kids have sat on this rug before. But that kid has never been you. And I am so excited to teach you, not the curriculum. Everything you bring to this classroom community matters. Your hopes, your interests, your quirks, your worries, all of that is mixing together in wonderful ways and it’s gonna inform, you know, how the year unfolds, the curriculum we jump into. So everything you bring to this community matters. Tell me, what is one thing you’d like me to know about you?

Even something as simple as that, just repeating the language, everything you bring to this community matters. Tell me one thing that you’d like me to know about you. Then a kid, know, kids have said things to me like, I want you to know that when we go out and my little brother is next to me, sometimes I feel like I’m invisible because he’s the cutest baby. Or I want you to know that I’m not afraid of snakes, even though they’re the number two fear in the world. Or a kid once said, I want you to know that I haven’t had a mirror book in a class before a mirror book, meaning a book that reflects something important about their identity that they didn’t feel was known. And so the kids can offer those contributions in big ways or in little ways, like in light ways or serious ways. But I think so often kids just feel like a cog in a classroom machine and being explicitly told, you’re not a cog in this classroom machine. In fact, what you bring is what will make this year wondrous can feel like a big surprise to kids. I like to create list poems, like things we bring to our classroom community. There’s one, I forget which page it’s on, but they’re just so fun. like one of them is, I worry about homework. Another one was like being a triplet can be hard. Another one was I have synesthesia. And actually all of those things we wove into our classwork for the year somehow. So that’s just a little example of something small a teacher can say that can make a big difference.

Debbie:

I really wish I could go back in an alternate timeline and have you as my teacher, like in third grade. It sounds so, yeah, supportive and what a special thing for a student to feel seen in that way.

Lily Howard Scott:

Well, before this closed door, I think I taught a lot of poetry and maybe not as much math as I should have. But, you know, we all have our strengths and our struggles.

Debbie:

Indeed, indeed. And I want to just say, too, one of the examples you just shared that everything you bring to this classroom matters, you say that’s also language we can then use at home. Like everything that you’re sharing, we can use it in our families. Families can say everything that you bring to this family matters. And we can help our kids feel known and seen in that same way.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah, there’s a poem in the book by a family actually, like something I bring to this family is. And I think if you as a parent emphasize that it’s the little idiosyncratic things about you too that I value so much, that you send the message to your kid, like just you being precisely you is what I value, not the shiny achievement oriented stuff can help that kid feel with such a sense of belonging and enoughness. And also something I’d like you to know about me language, it inevitably sometimes leads to the kid surprising the parent, right? In a way that can sometimes be hard or sometimes be wonderful, but I think it can help that parent honor the space between them and their kid. That sentenced them and see their kids sort of with fresh eyes in a way that ultimately can lead to closeness and understanding.

Debbie:

Yeah, and that’s a concept you talk about, the separateness of ourselves from our children, which is, again, such a, it’s just not something that I think a lot of people are talking about in the way that you do. And it’s so important, you know, that our kids feel that they are separate from us while being connected to us. Can you talk a little bit about that concept?

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah. Yes. Well, first I’d love to ask you, only because it’s such a, it’s a favorite book of mine, and though I’ve only met you briefly, I have a feeling it might resonate. Have you read The Anti-Romantic Child by Priscilla Gilman?

Debbie:

I have not read it, but I know of it. Yeah.

Lily Howard Scott:

you do? OK. Yeah, so it’s a wonderful book about Priscilla’s experience being a parent to her son who has hyperlexia. And this idea of honoring the separateness between us and our kids, I really started thinking about this when I read a Wilkie quote that she had included in her beautiful book. And the quote is something like, what is it? Once we acknowledge or embrace that even between the closest of people, infinite distances continue to exist, then I think the language is like a loving living side by side can happen when we can see each other whole against the sky. And just this idea of remembering that it’s production, not reproduction, and that the moments with our kids when we think, whoa, I wouldn’t do it that way, or that’s completely alien to me that when you can try to look at that distance in a loving way and see each other whole against the sky as opposed to projecting endlessly or feeling panic because, you know, the kid doesn’t like sports and you love sports or whatever it was, you’re neuro, you know, neurotypical, the kid isn’t, that that embracing that separateness I have found to be so helpful for me as a parent. I also repeat that Khalil Gibran line, your children are not your children, they come through you but not from you. That helps me embrace the separateness. And for teachers too, sometimes it’s like, who has the class where the kids are achieving in this way with their reading levels? And just remembering like, you are separate from your students’ achievement. It’s not a reflection of you. Like in any relationship, leaning into that space between you is healthy, I think.

Debbie:

Yes, hard to do. I’m glad you came up with the Khalil Gibran quote because I was singing that there’s a song that was made out of it, Sweet Honey and the Bee, and I’m like singing that song and then you brought it up. So thank you for that. Listeners, I’m going to have links to these references too, because it would be worth going and reading the poem and kind of reading the lyrics because I think this is a profound concept. just one little concept that we’re touching on here. The second part of the book is cultivate students’ self-awareness, self-compassion, and self-regulation. So what would you like to share with us about that part of the book?

Lily Howard Scott:

I suppose that, you know, complete self-understanding is never possible, but the right words can help kids, you know, unlock a lot of what’s going on within them in ways that are tremendously helpful. And if you give those kiddos tools when they’re seven, eight, or nine, the tools will stick with them throughout their life. I feel like parents and elementary school teachers have this secret power, which is that young kids are just less crippled by self-consciousness than older kids and sort of are more able to receive language that helps them navigate their inner lives. So, you know, than a middle schooler or a high schooler. So you give it to them young and then they tuck it away and they rely on it. One of my favorite language nuggets from this section or perhaps not favorite, but most useful is this idea of just referring to feelings as visitors, which is inspired by Rumi’s wonderful poem, The Guest House, like this. This being human is a guest house every day, a new arrival, an unexpected visitor. I think so often kids feel like they are, they’re feeling, that they feel this tornado inside or this volcano and there’s nothing to be done about it. And language that helps kids remember feelings come, feelings go. Your core self is always wonderful and wise and good. As you experience different feeling visitors can help kids, again, just see their feelings with more distance and more self-compassion. So that’s one little nugget from that section.

Debbie:

Yeah, and that is such, I mean, that is still something I’m personally working on, like as an adult woman here, but I do think that is so powerful. And, you know, some of the language you shared in there is hello feeling visitor. And just, again, you mentioned that earlier in the conversation, but just that separation, it’s kind of, you know, thinking of Tina Payne Bryson and Dan Siegel’s work, Name It to Tame It. Like, I see you, it doesn’t mean that it’s a good or a bad thing. It just is what it is. One of the other things you say is, what can your wiser self say back to the other thoughts and feelings in your head? and again, encouraging this kind of internal agency. And I think that is so important, especially for kids who might feel things more intensely, who again, might be more rigid thinkers or incredibly intelligent. And so it can be disconcerting to feel like there’s this part of me that I can’t control or what does this piece of me mean about who I am? And so just kind of realizing we can have a relationship with this part of us and it’s not a good or a bad part, it just is a part.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yes, that’s so beautifully said. I couldn’t have said it better. I don’t think kiddos or even some adults, I still struggle with this, realize that we’re made out of parts, which is of course informed by Schwartz’s work, Internal Family System. And just knowing to your point, name entertainment, there’s that part, right? But it’s not who I am. The idea of wrapping words around a wisest self, which I like to say to kids, is just the truest, kindest, most you part of you, is I think the most powerful emotional management tool I’ve ever encountered, because if you can wrap words around it, then it exists. And I remember that this really hit home for me. My student, Harper, was eight at the time, an exceptionally high achieving kid, a kid who one might presume, school is totally easy for you. You’re not having those cacophonous conversations in your head. And she said to me after I introduced the idea of a wiser self, she said, Can I call it my president decider? Because president decider gets to choose what to pay attention to inside of me. And she wrote these two poems. One of them was from the voice of pressure that she hears. And I have it on page 73, but it’s this remarkable poem. She describes pressure as red faced, open mouth, knocking at the door of her mind. Pressure is screaming. Raise your hand higher. Show that you care. And I read this, and then the last two words are, I’m trying, I’m trying. And it was this reminder to me that like all kids, know, that first of all, high achievement is often just regulated anxiety, but that all kids benefit from learning to talk to themselves with love. And her president decider writes this poem back to pressure and president decider, it’s a poem for two voices. Pressure says, do your challenge work. And President Decider says, you don’t always have to do your challenge work. It’s good for you to play too. 

And yeah, I think for me, there’s so many moments as a teacher, you’re kind of just chugging through the day and you’re picking up the goldfish on the floor and you’re tired. And then there are these like transcendent moments that just stick with you. And for me, it was listening to Harper read that poem for two voices between President Decider and pressure that reminded me how important it is to give kids language to navigate their inner lives. And when I’m having a hard day, I’m like, what would my president decider say? And to your point, sometimes I listen to President Decider, sometimes I don’t, but I like to know that it’s there. And I should say that that was an ICT classroom. didn’t have an IEP, but many kids in the class did. And as they looked at her and listened to her read this poem about what her president decider says to herself and about what pressure says to her, they had that me too moment of like, it’s not just me. School is even really hard for her sometimes. And then I think there’s that beautiful moment of realizing that what you assume alienates you often connects you. And in her own way, Harper was neuro-atypical because she had synesthesia, this perceptual phenomenon that allowed her to associate colors with letters. But that was just a beautiful year of teaching in Brooklyn of all the kids looking at each other in new ways that I think those new ways were open to them through the words they had access to that they adapted and made their own.

Debbie:

Such a great story. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Let’s just spend a few minutes on the third and fourth part of the book. The third part is inspire students to, the third part is inspire students to strive for independence and take academic risks. There’s a quote that I pulled out that really stuck with me. also listeners, this is where the concept of what a brilliant mistake also comes into play. But you wrote, when we shame kids for not trying hard enough, when they’re trying with all their might, we teach them this toxic lesson. Trying doesn’t work. And I was like, truth bomb right there. So tell me a little bit more about this way that we can inspire students to to keep trying, right? And to not internalize that there’s something wrong with those mistakes.

Lily Howard Scott:

It’s so funny, isn’t it? know, kids have trouble and we say, keep going, keep going, you’ve got it, keep trying. The kid is like, I am trying, I’m trying with all my might. And for me it was Dr. Ross Green’s work around how kids do well if they can versus kids do well if they want to that helped me realize, no, everybody’s trying. If a kid isn’t doing well, it’s because something is hard for them. Maybe they need extra help with something or they have a lagging skill and unmet need. And so the language in this section is around sort of words to rely on that can help you operate with resilience and independence, that can move you away from thinking, if I only tried harder, this would be easier. Language like Think Ish-fully, which is inspired by Peter H. Reynolds’ beautiful book Ish. It’s about a boy who tries to draw a flower, doesn’t look like what he had in mind, tries to draw a turtle, doesn’t look like the turtle he was thinking of, crumples up his work and then his sister uncrumbles it and puts it around his room like a gallery and says, it’s flowerish, it’s turtleish. And this idea of being ishful, it’s not about doing something halfway, it’s just realizing that whatever you think will happen and what happens, there’s often, you know, it’s very rare that what you bring forth aligns with your initial plan. In fact, there’s so much beauty and delight in bringing forth something that’s a little different from what you imagined. And thinking ishfully lets kids embrace that and sort of be more gentle on themselves when what the word, you know, when the word they were writing doesn’t really look the way it looks in books or when the picture they’re creating looks a little different than what they’d imagined. So, yeah, I do think we should, it’s funny, sometimes the most seemingly supportive language has its own underbelly and language around try harder is, that’s definitely something I’ve been working on moving away from, because I don’t know one kid, I’ve never met one kid who just really wasn’t trying hard enough. I think we’re all doing the best we can under the given circumstances.

Debbie:

Yes. Yes. Yeah, there’s always a reason why. And we’re big fans of Ross Green here for sure. And I remember, and I wrote about this in Differently Wired, but when I first read that, his signature phrase, kids do well when they can, my child was in first grade, I believe. And I just wanted to walk around the school with a big sign because there was this sense of, this is a choice. And we know that it’s not a choice if a child isn’t succeeding. There’s always that underlying reason why. So I really appreciated that. And then let’s quickly just kind of, we can’t cover this in depth, and I do encourage listeners to check out Lily’s book. Part four is supporting students when they exhibit challenging behaviors. And you share a lot of good kind of phrasing that doesn’t instill shame and that kind of really helps the child kind of feel good as they continue to learn and grow. And there’s two words that I wanted to just highlight just because. Can you talk about the power of those two words?

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah, of course. I think just because language, just because mm doesn’t mean mm helps kids who struggle or really just all kids, any of us, lean into both and thinking that this is true and this is true. And I think sometimes when we don’t have words to wrap around that complexity, just, kids can show their frustration at being misunderstood in just other ways. It’s gonna come out somehow, whether it’s flipping over the table or yelling at you. So I remember just because language sort of helped kids just clarify something they’d been longing to say, but maybe hadn’t been able to before. And I remember particularly for neurodivergent kiddos, one child in particular who had an IEP said this, just because I get upset doesn’t mean I mean. Another child with an IEP said, just because I’m quiet on the rug doesn’t mean I don’t have ideas in my head. And I remember he got a chorus of this symbol, which I keep doing throughout this podcast, which was our classroom symbol for like, me too, me too. And he looked around and thought, again, it’s not just me. Or my student, Tiersa, she didn’t use just because language, which I think is wonderful. It’s really important that if you introduce it and the kid says, yeah, I’ll take the ethos of that, but do it in my own way, you just say, great. She wrote this essentially a just because poem, differently she said, when you see a playground, I see a magical forest. I may not be good at word study, but when I see an ocean, I see a whole world worth exploring. And what she was doing was essentially sharing, yes, some things are hard for me because I have dyslexia. And they have all these strengths that don’t exist in spite of my dyslexia, but are directly tethered to my dyslexia. And these two things coexist at once. She said something about struggling to learn math facts, but being an exceptional creative thinker. And so, yeah, I think her poem’s in the book too, but watching my students really shape words around all their strengths that were tethered to their neurodivergence using just because language was a really beautiful thing. And one of those poems, it’s so interesting, a kid who had just moved to my classroom, I can’t remember if he’d immigrated recently from Turkey or had been living in the United States for a couple years, but I wasn’t aware that he was neurodivergent. And he listened to one student’s poem and then wrote him a little feedback slip that just said, me too, me too, because of that just because poem. And again, back to the idea of connectedness, when you see yourself in a peer, it’s just so validating. Yeah, that was another one of those classroom moments that I kind of tuck away and return to.

Debbie:

Yeah. Well, I’m so glad that you took that experience and decided I need to share this with more people so that other educators and families can understand the power of the words that shape us, naming your book, and really use this language. In a child’s formative years, it’s never really too early, I think, to start using this language. It’s also just for listeners who are raising now middle schoolers and high schoolers, it’s not too late to start using this language either. But as a way to kind of wrap us up, what would you like? Okay, so my listenership, right, is predominantly parents. There’s some educators, some therapists, people who are thought leaders in the neurodivergent space. But what would you like to leave listeners with in terms of something they could think about tonight as they interact with their child or their student?

Lily Howard Scott:

I guess that maybe this idea that we offer the language and I think we need to let go of the idea that the kid will ever say to us, thank you so much for giving me a just because stem. You know, I’m okay. Now I really, when something is hard for me, I’m gonna remember it’s not cause I’m not trying hard enough. That we just offer it and the kid likely looks at us blankly or doesn’t even look up for what they’re doing, but to not be deterred by that, that another way of thinking of I am as I am seen, as so many have said, is I am as I hear you talk about me. And the words we just put out into the atmosphere around these extraordinary kiddos who we love so much, they do nestle within the kids in our life. And in a month from now or two months from now or 10 years from now, that kiddo may remember, well, okay, just because this is hard for me doesn’t mean that I’m not an excellent student or whatever it is. Or language like, all right, I’m hearing that, but what would my president decider say? Or what would my wisest self say? Just because I think it doesn’t make it true. And I think we’re so preoccupied with measurement these days. What did the kid learn? Or how can you show me the kid got it? And I think we really need to release that. There’s something so toxic about being too preoccupied with measurement. You offer it, and then you kind of let it go. You know, 15 years from now, a kid may make a mistake and then say, okay, what learning is in there for me? And the language that you offered, I really believe sort of crosses time and space to be a part of that moment with the kid. So I think, yeah, I guess that.

Debbie:

That’s great. I love that as a big takeaway from this conversation because a lot of what we talk about here and what I’m always sharing is there are first of all, no quick ways to change or, you know, our child’s worldview or have them be a different person from who they are, change their behavior. And so many of us are often looking for how do I get my kid to do this or, you know, what is the way for this to happen. So I love this reminder of just not being attached to the outcome, but to recognize that it all matters, like everything that we say. And that in you talk about repairing too, right? So it’s not to say that it’s ever too late to do this work. So just kind of releasing, you know, this idea of what it’s going to look like and knowing that at the end of the day, it is it’s in there. And it also while it’s helping shape them and helping them hopefully grow up with a strong sense of self and having this kind of more emotional intelligence. It’s also helping us be more connected and in relationship with them.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yes, yes, and connectedness is everything. When kids feel that connectedness, when they feel that strong well inside them, then everything is easier. And I think I learned that as an elementary school teacher that a kid can’t send you an email 10 years later and say, thanks for that, that in a way your job feels mysterious, like you offer it, and then they leave, and then they’re out in the world. And I wonder, upon reflection, I think, that is sort of similar to being a parent of a young kid. You offer it, you see what happens, you kind of let it go and you let go of the illusion that they’ll ever feel like a moment of proof. You just do what you can and try to do it lovingly. And again, also that these words are such a bomb for you, that I rely on these words when I’m ruminating or when I am feeling just deeply anxious that I think we all I hope that the language in the book is something that any reader can tuck away and use themselves.

Debbie:

Yeah, a thousand percent. Again, as I said earlier, I’m still working on all this stuff. So it’s super helpful. I’m going to just recap. The book is called The Words That Shape Us, the science-based power of teacher language. And where can listeners learn more about you and the book?

Lily Howard Scott:

Well, you can find the book anywhere books are sold. And you can learn a little bit about how I support schools and young children through my website, which is lilyhowardscott.com. And thank you so much for having me on. It was such a joy to talk to you. And I have to say, as I read your book, the moment that struck me most as a teacher was when Asher said that he needed to apologize in school. That just made my heart stop. I’m so sorry that he had that experience. And I’m so glad that he has you as his mom.

Debbie:

Thank you. Thank you. means so much. Yeah, I think about that all the time. And it was a very long time ago now. But thank you.

Lily Howard Scott:

Yeah. We need to make our signs. Kids do well if they can and just walk around different schools with them.

Debbie:

Yeah, petitioning outside, making t-shirts, all the things. Well, thank you again. Thank you so much for everything you shared. Congratulations on the book, which is just new this year. Listeners, I encourage you to check it out. I’ll have links to everything and all the references because Lily shared a lot of resources and people that she learned from. So I’ll have all of that in the show notes page. So thank you again, Lily. It was great to chat with you today.

Lily Howard Scott:

It was wonderful to be here. Thank you, Debbie.