Navigating Substance Use & Abuse in Our Kids, with Brenda Zane

Debbie: 

Hey Brenda, welcome to the podcast.

Brenda Zane:

Thank you, I’m so happy to be here.

Debbie:

Yeah, I’m really happy to have this conversation. We were just talking before I hit record and this is another one of those conversations that even after doing so many episodes and having this show for so many years, we haven’t really had this conversation in the way that we’re going to today to be talking about drug use and just navigating that as a parent. And it’s such a critical topic for families because I know the research shows that neurodivergent kids and humans are kind of more susceptible to drug and substance use and abuse. I don’t want to go into it too much now I want to hear from you. So would you kind of start us off by telling us as much as you want to share about your story and how you came to be doing the work that you do?

Brenda Zane:

Absolutely. And you’re right, it is one of those conversations that can be hard to have. And so before I kind of launch into my story, I just always like to tell people who are listening, kudos to you, right? You hit play on an episode that can look difficult to listen to. And so I really commend the parents and anyone else who’s listening to just encourage them not to think that this is an all bad news story. There’s actually a lot of positive things that we learn through this. And so I always just like to say that because it can feel very heavy. My story is pretty dramatic. Fortunately, not everybody’s as dramatic as mine. Mine sort of goes to the extreme. When my son started struggling, and I should preempt that even, he was diagnosed with ADHD when he was in between third and fourth grade. So we got the letter home from the teacher and started doing all the testing and found that he had ADD. So he didn’t have the hyperactivity, but he had the inattentiveness and he was also highly gifted. And so as you know better than anyone, what a bundle. However, I didn’t know that at the time. I was just like, okay. I knew he was unique and off we went and we tried medication and we tried all these different things. And then fast forward, my husband and I got divorced, his dad and I got divorced when he was 10. And then at 13, we started noticing, hmm, some things are a little troubling. There was an incident in eighth grade, which is just as a heads up, eighth grade is a pivotal year for kids in the direction that they’re gonna go. He was caught with marijuana at school. And so that was our, that was our red flag because until then there were some yellow flags, but nothing really that kind of caused me to freak out, which parents do naturally. And so we started on a path of trying to help him cope and, you know, navigate life without marijuana because marijuana works fantastically for kids that have ADHD.

Unfortunately, it’s the wrong tool to solve the problem, obviously, but it works and it’s fast and it’s socially acceptable in some groups. We went through numerous high risk situations. He was one of those thrill seekers, you know, sneaking out at night, hanging out with the kids who are not the kids that you would want your child hanging out with. And ultimately, because we were very afraid for his life because of who he was hanging out with and the things that he was doing, we had him transported to a wilderness therapy program in Utah and we live in Washington state. So that was an amazing, great experience. He went from there to residential treatment, which was another great experience for the first three months until he came home on a home visit and ran away and was back with all of the same kids that he had been getting in trouble with. And that was really the start of a five year journey for us through various treatment programs, jail, truancy, I mean, you name it, I could tell you the story of it. It’s, you know, it’s so much. And so I really can empathize with parents who are in this situation because it is exhausting. You don’t know what to do. You feel like you have failed as a parent somewhere along the line if I had done something different none of this would have happened. And so he went through multiple treatment programs in and out back and forth between you know returning to using returning to the lifestyle that he really liked which was a high risk lifestyle. He just thrived on that thrill. He was selling drugs. He was running around with gang members. You know he was doing all of the things that as a parent you just can’t wrap your head around like what are you doing and why are you doing it? And I think that one of the hardest things was to understand why is this kid who has a loving family, you know, every opportunity that he could ever possibly want, why is he doing this? And so it all culminated in 2017 with two fentanyl overdoses in the course of three days.

And so the second one, he was on life support. He was in a coma. And that really, you know, your world stops when your child is in that situation. And so I had a lot of time sitting next to him in the hospital to evaluate what am I doing with my life? What am I doing? I’m in advertising and marketing. I sell shoes and beer and airline tickets and cloud server storage and like what am I doing with my life? This has been such a battle for us. And so I ended up, you know, we can talk about that later, but I ended up making a big switch and left that career and started helping families who were in the position that I had been in with no resources, feeling overwhelmed, desperately trying to save my child and having police officers in my living room saying, your kid’s going to be dead or in jail if you don’t do something about this. Yet they didn’t have anything to give me. I was like, well good luck with that. So yeah, so that’s kind of the Cliff Notes version of our story. Again, it’s extreme. That is not how it goes for everybody and I would say it doesn’t go that way for most, but that’s what I got. So here we are.

Debbie:

It is such an incredible story and I thank you for sharing that. you know, first of all, before we get into things, can you tell us how your son is doing now? Just so we kind of, yeah.

Brenda Zane:

I would, yes, I would love to, I would love to wrap that up. He is doing phenomenally well. He actually is working at that treatment program that he ran away from when he was 17. So he’s one of those full circle stories. It can happen, it does happen. And we don’t hear enough of these stories. We hear a lot of stories about kids dying of overdoses, which they do, right? And they get into lots of trouble and they end up in jail, but there are more that end up finding their way out. It can take a long time. So you have to be, you know, you have to have some stamina. But yes, he’s helping 13 to 17 year old adolescent boys who are exactly where he was. And he loves it so much. He says, Mom, I would do it for free if I could afford to, because I just love it so much. So yeah, thanks for asking.

Debbie:

Gosh, that’s so incredible. So gosh, and I have so many questions. And I guess where I kind of want to start is, you know, as you’re describing that, this question came up in my mind is, how, how did you survive that it feels unsurvivable to be I can only imagine the level of hyper vigilance and kind of chronic fear state that you must have been in. And there’s so much stigma. It’s so much to deal with. So what got you through that period?

Brenda Zane:

Well, for a while you’re just in, you know, go mode. You are in problem solving mode, are doing everything that you can to solve this problem and keep your kid alive. And so what happens to a lot of us is we ignore our own bodies. We ignore our other family members, or not ignore, but they kind of fall to the wayside because you do have to rally all of your resources around survival and to be able to show up for your child to help them. And so you know, I had a very supportive family, which was great, but we didn’t have addiction in our family. Nobody understood it. It really, like you said, the stigma. A lot of people just think, well, that’s a bad kid. Well, he’s just a bad kid, you know, and I knew he wasn’t a bad kid. I knew he was a phenomenal kid, different than other kids, but he was an amazing, amazing kid. And so I kept having to just tell myself he’s not a bad kid.

There must be some reason why he’s doing this. And I would ask him that and he’d be like, I just like to have fun, you know, I mean, because they don’t even know what they’re trying to sort of cope with and numb out. Trying to, you know, stay healthy, trying to get out and walk, trying to have some water, eat some real food. Those were things that I started doing more toward the end because I literally was breaking down. I had a lot of pain, physical pain in my legs to the point where I couldn’t even walk anymore. And every doctor I went to said, no, you’re fine. You’re the healthiest person we’ve ever seen. I’m like, but I can’t walk. And I had one neuro neurologist who said, this is psychosomatic pain. It’s real. I’m not telling you that it’s not real, but it’s caused by all of the stress and the pressure that’s on you. And so that’s one of the big things that I do now in working with parents is to help them get into a more regulated state so that they can be there for their kids and not fall apart like I absolutely did.

Debbie:

I’m going to ask one last question and then we’ll take a break and we’ll get into some more specifics about what parents should know about drug use in their kids. I so loved hearing how your son is doing today. And if you’re comfortable saying so, I’m just wondering what your relationship is like in terms of, obviously he knows what you went through as part of this and has it brought you closer? Is it something you guys talk openly about?

Brenda Zane:

It is, and it’s a great question. I’m so glad you asked that because when you’re in the middle of it and you’re considering things like having them transported to a therapy program or sending them to outpatient treatment, all you can think of is this is probably going to break the relationship forever. That’s where everybody’s brain goes. They’re probably never going to talk to me again. And I had that 100%. But I decided I would rather have him alive and really super pissed off at me for the rest of his life than to not have him around. And what I can tell you is we have the coolest and closest relationship today. We can talk about anything because we’ve done so much work. We’ve been through so much therapy. We’ve really had to get to the point where we can be 100% open with each other and the other day even I texted him a picture of some drugs that somebody had posted in our community that this mom was wondering what this was. And I’m like, it was like 730 in the morning. And I’m texting him this. I’m like, what does this look like? Does this look like a dab or is this like a, and I’m like, how many moms are sending their kids, their, now, 27 year old kids, pictures of drugs at 7:30 in the morning. And, and, you know, we can talk about that. And he also mentors kids. And so he’s there one -on -one with them when they’ve come home from treatment. And so he asked me for advice as well. He’s like, man, this kid’s mom is like crazy, or, you know, trying to control him. So it’s really cool. He totally supports what I do. And that actually has translated to other relationships too. So it’s not just the relationship with him, but I’ve learned how to have relationships with other people that are more open and more honest. And so it’s been really beautiful. I definitely say it’s one of the silver linings of this whole thing.

Debbie:

Wow, that’s incredible. Okay, thank you for that. So let’s take a quick break and then I want to get into some more specific questions about marijuana and other drug use. So you talked about marijuana and of course the language in my head is it’s a gateway drug. I mean, it seems like it’s the thing. It’s like, it’s just marijuana. I know so many adults who are super lax with marijuana use in their kids and they may share supplies. And it’s interesting. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anyone say that marijuana works really well specifically for kids with ADHD? Although when you said that I’m like, yeah, that makes sense. can you talk a little bit about marijuana? Because I think it is one of those things, especially if it’s legal in most places. And it just seems like it’s not that big of a deal.

Brenda Zane:

Absolutely. It is so common because those of us who are, you know, parenting kids in their, you know, tweens, early teens or mid teens, the marijuana of our day when we were in, you know, high school was four to six percent potency. And it was usually in the form of leaf that you would roll up in a joint, right? Completely different product today. The products today are often up to 100 % THC, often 80 between 80 and 100%. They’re highly concentrated. So you’ll hear the term high potency THC. And that just means this is a product that was made in a manufactured lab or at least processed in a lab. This is not, you know, a flower that’s being rolled up into a joint. And so there’s vaping devices that are delivering the potency that is exponentially more than it was ever would ever be not in a natural format. And what we’re seeing with kids, especially with kids who struggle with social anxiety, depression, just being different, like my son, he was just different you know and he said the only time I feel normal is when I’m high. He’s like the first time I tried it, I was like this is what it’s like to not be to not have my brain constant constantly running not ruminating I’m able to slow down like time has slowed down it feels amazing which is why I say the drugs are not the problem they’re the solution. And so if we can reframe our thinking around that, you can start to understand how, it makes sense that my kid would want to use marijuana because it’s solving this big problem for him or for her. And so what we see often now is kids are getting addicted very quickly or dependent very quickly because of the potency, right? So if you’re putting something that potent into your system, it’s going to have a big impact very quickly.

And then in a certain set of kids who are more prone to schizophrenia, psychosis, we are seeing THC induced psychosis in young people and it happens quickly. have parents in our community who say, six months ago I had a normal kid and I don’t know who this person is now. They’re hearing voices. They are seeing things that are not there. They’re having psychotic breaks. And so we are trying to really sound the alarm on getting parents up to speed very quickly on what today’s marijuana is because I just think of it as a completely different product. Just don’t even. That’s why I just call it THC, because it’s a completely different product and very, very dangerous to an adolescent brain and to a growing brain. If you’re an adult, if you’re in your 30s and you want to, you know, use a few times a week, it’s probably not going to have that big of an impact for a 13, 14, 15 year old, 18 year old, huge impact. And it’s very, very serious because the doctors today have not been able to confirm one way or the other whether that psychosis will persist. So it may resolve after treatment if you can get your kiddo into treatment and it may not. So the jury’s out on that and that’s one of the things that’s very scary.

Debbie:

Wow, that was gonna be one of my questions. Is that reversible? I feel like I’ve heard of that before, but it’s been a long time. And just, I don’t know if you have any statistics, is that a small subset of kids who experience that or any kind of data on that?

Brenda Zane:

It is with people who are using daily. So this is a heavy user, kids who are using daily multiple times a day of those high potency products. so parents will often think, well, that’s not my kid. Like I would know if my kid was doing that. Well, actually you don’t because it’s often in the form of a vape pen, which has no scent and often looks like a highlighter. I mean, they are actually highlighters, there’s a new product that looks exactly like a highlighter that you would send in your kid’s backpack to school and it’s a it’s a vape device so you don’t know and the edibles look like gummy bears and they look like you know like little colorful rock candies and so you know unless you’re really dialed into this you don’t know and you could easily just walk by your kids room. There’s juice bags that look like they literally look like a little juice pouch. You know there’s products that look like Cheetos and Doritos and Captain Crunch and the packaging. If you didn’t really closely read the package you would not know that that is a high-potency THC product. So parents just have to be really really aware and know what’s going on.

Debbie:

As you’re saying this, I just feel like being a parent just gets harder and harder with every passing decade. I mean, I can’t, it’s just the rules have completely changed. And I, I mean, I only learned about how a vape pen could deliver THC through like an episode of Below Deck, like a few seasons ago. Like I’m so clueless about this stuff. Like how do parents, I mean, I guess this is part of your work, but how can parents stay up to date on all of these different ways that drugs can be delivered?

Brenda Zane:

Well, you have to put a little bit of time into it. And again, it’s one of those topics that it’s the last thing on your list, right? The last thing you want to do is go and do that Google search on high-potency THC and teens or whatever it is. And I’m happy to provide some resources for you to put in the show notes of really great trustworthy organizations that have in -depth information on this. One is the Partnership to End Addiction, which is just drugfree .org and Johnny’s Ambassadors is another really great nonprofit organization started by a woman who lost her son to suicide because of his THC use and she has just like blown it out of the water as far as education, resources, presentations, you know, it’s amazing. So those are two that I would look to specifically for THC information. But it is one of those things that we have to as parents kind of get outside of our own fear and get outside of our own discomfort. And the other thing that happens with this is this starts to bring up junk from our own past, right? If you grew up in a home where maybe your parents or a caregiver was misusing substances and it was very impactful in your life in a negative way, this is not the thing you want to go and start looking into, right? You kind of want to stay away from it. So there’s work that we have to do on ourselves to say, I need to do this. This is really important to keep my kids safe. And I need to start having some of these conversations and learn how to not make it awkward and not make it, know, judgmental and critical so that we can have these open conversations. Because I didn’t have that with my son. I was like, well, if I talk about it, he’s going to want to go do it. And so I just really avoided it. And that was not a good strategy.

Debbie:

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s like any hard conversation, you know, we’ve done episodes on things like porn and self harm and like these really heavy topics. And there it is the kind of thing I think a lot of parents just don’t want to consider that it’s going to impact our kids. And then there is this idea that well, if I bring it up, you know, my child, it might plant an idea in the head, but everything I’ve read and all the research shows that is actually not the case. Open communication is so critical.

Brenda Zane:

It’s not. It’s not yet. They already know. They already know. Whatever you don’t know or whatever you think you’re going to bring up to them that they don’t know about, they already know about it. So obviously you want to be talking in an age appropriate way. So if you have a younger kiddo, then it could be something. And you said you’ve had Jessica Lahey on who’s the master at this, but just talking about, well, mom had knee surgery and so these pills are for her and it would be very wrong for you to take those because they’re not made for your body or swallowing the toothpaste is not how we use toothpaste, know, things like that. But then as they get older, they know and we are fooling ourselves if we think that they don’t know. So it’s better to just, you know, we teach tools for how to open these conversations and how to really come at this side by side with your child instead of head on you’re not gonna do this. Well, if you ever, if I ever catch you, know, blah, blah, blah, that is just gonna push it underground. So knowing how to come alongside them and help steer them in directions because again, if you’re, if you remember that the, substances solve a big problem for our kids, especially the ones who struggle with ADHD or autism, is incredibly impactful and it works very quickly and a lot of the tools that we have as alternatives we’ll go do some yoga or practice mindfulness those don’t work in five minutes you have to you know you have to remember that young people want an instant reaction and for my son too you know he once he found marijuana it was like these are the cool kids and i want to hang out with the cool kids and so that got him social acceptability. And then because he is differently wired, he had like a whole spreadsheet of his, you know, like for selling marijuana, like when was a good time, all these algorithms, like if it’s prom or if it’s homecoming, like because he’s so brilliant, like he became the kid that they all looked at, like, okay, well, when should we be doing this or when should we be doing that? Because he just mastered it right like our kids do like they go deep into something and they master it and he mastered selling weed unfortunately unfortunately but he was so good at it and and it was something that he could be prideful of and that he was really respected for in that crowd and so that’s where we have to be really careful and try to steer those talents in directions now he has turned that into the stock market thank goodness golf. So he’s now absolutely completely obsessed and addicted to golf in the stock market but I have no complaints. But you know our kids are different like that and so they will take things to an extreme sometimes that other kids wouldn’t.

Debbie:

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I know we often talk about leveraging our kids’ strengths to learn other things, but this is definitely not what we want to do. So I wanted to ask a question about risk, experimentation, and then problematic use. my, you know, I was a teenager, like, and we won’t go into that on this call. You know, I know that like the teen brain and especially in the neurodivergent brain, we are kind of wired to take risks and that’s, that’s developmentally appropriate. So I’m just wondering what guidance you have for parents to navigate that, you know, experimentation and the risk involved with that. And when does it move into something that we should be worried about or should we be worried about it from the very start?

Brenda Zane:

Absolutely, I would be, I don’t, I hate using the word worried, but I would just because of the products that are out today, I would be worried more so that your child is using something to solve a problem. And what we tend to do is we tend to focus on the solution, which is the substances. And we spend less time trying to figure out why they are using the substances. And so what I would say is if you’ve if you know that there’s a little bit of experimentation going on to buckle up your seatbelt, get really brave and have a conversation to say, huh, I’ve noticed you’re a little different sometimes, you know, when you come home from Johnny’s house or when you come home after you’ve been out at a football game or whatever it is, what’s going on? You know, tell me what’s going on. And that will start to help open a conversation versus you, you know, do I smell alcohol in your breath? Because then you’re just headed for a battle. So again, it’s that coming alongside them. Huh, I noticed that, you know, you always, your eyes always look a little weird when you come home after blah, blah, know let’s talk about that and trying to understand that like what kind of what the pattern is and then also well what do you like about it if you can get to the point where they they say well yeah i had some beers when i was at you know johnny’s house okay well what did you like about it well you know i fit in like i was like the other kids i was cool okay well anything else? Well, yeah, it made me relax and da -da. Okay, was there anything you didn’t like about it? Well, I hate talking to you about it, right? Like, I don’t want to be talking to my mom about alcohol. So starting to try to unearth what it is doing. And then that gives you the opportunity to say, because eventually there will be some negative consequences, but for teens, sometimes it takes a while, right? They can go for quite a while, just kind of dipping their toe in and again with the potency that’s out there, it’s going to be more risky to do that. so being able to open the conversation, understand why they’re using it, let them know that you’re on their team and you are the safe place to come talk about it because you don’t want them avoiding you, right? If something happens and I did this, I’m sure you’ve had other guests talk about giving them an out. You know, I told my son if you ever need to get out of a situation. I am your phone call and I will not ask any questions and you will not get into trouble.” And he used that card once and I still don’t know what happened but he used it. And so let them know you’re on their team and you are the safe person to talk to about it. You know Susie, I think she took some pills the other day. okay well wow where do think she got them, right? So that it’s not like, well then you’re never going to hang out with Susie again, because again, they’re teens and they’re going to want to push against that or they’re, if they’re tweens. So I would say in that experimentation phase, just get super curious. What is this doing? What problem is it solving? And especially if you know what your child struggles with, it, if they struggle with rumination or if they struggle with social anxiety or whatever it is you can probably clue in pretty quickly that that’s going to be the thing. And then we always talk about try to find replacement behaviors and ones that are fun and fast because substances are fun and fast for a while. so trying to find ways that they can get that same result, but in a more healthy, less dangerous way. And as far as where it turns into problematic is when you’re seeing it repeated,

You’re seeing, you know, every time they come home on the weekend or every time, you know, they get to school, they’re late and teachers have said they think he’s high or she’s high. So if you’re seeing that repetition and there’s usually a pretty big distance in the relationship. So where you might’ve had a pretty good even, you know, teens, yes, they’re going to pull away, but you still have that relationship. When that really starts to feel like, I don’t think we have that anymore. There’s just a lot of distance, a lot of negativity, a lot of pushback. And a lot of times kids can keep up their grades, especially if they’re gifted. You might not see a drop in grades. I always cringe when I see that. You’ll see a list of what parents need to look for to know, like, should I be worried? And they’ll say, their grades are going to drop. And I’m like, actually, their grades might not drop because they might be able to maintain that but usually a change in friends, you’ll notice usually some sort of hygiene change and that could be challenging also with our kids because sometimes they’re not the best at hygiene to begin with and especially if they’re teenagers, but you’ll usually notice a little bit of like less care, less hygiene, weight loss or weight gain if they’re an isolator and they’re doing a lot of gaming and weed and sitting in their room. So you just have to be tuned into those little differences to say, you know things just feel a little off and usually parents tell me I know in my gut something’s wrong. I know something’s off and we just don’t wanna listen to our gut when it’s talking about this. So those are things I’d be looking at.

Debbie:

Yeah. Yeah, that’s so helpful. Thank you for sharing that. And just going back to the earlier part, what I heard you say was don’t freak out. Like, and I know how hard that must be. And just to kind of listen and, okay. And just with curiosity, because we don’t, if they are sharing with us, we don’t want to kind of give them a reason not to. So I imagine then after we take in that information and we have kept it together and we haven’t freaked out. We need to take that somewhere else and have a freak out. Is that how it works?

Brenda Zane:

Usually, yeah, usually. So it’s great to have a friend or community or therapist. I mean, I always recommend having a therapist, too,  especially if your child’s misusing substances because it does bring up stuff from your past potentially. You know, it’s just confusing and to find a therapist who does have training in substance use in particular. If you can find somebody who’s got training in adolescent substance use, even better. And I can also send you some resources for that. Just having that person where you keep it together with them, you’re very curious, you’re not judgmental, you’re not critical. And then they go out the door and you’re like, my gosh, this is really happening. And that’s OK. I mean, that’s just being a parent. But having somebody else to do that with, not with them, with them, are calm cucumber and they can come to you anytime with anything as much as you might not wanna hear it. You’d rather have them talking to you about it than somebody else.

Debbie:

Yeah, for sure. So for the other scenario where you are seeing those changes and you’re realizing this is a problem. My kid is going down a path and I’m scared and I don’t know what to do. What do you advise parents to do? Is that part of what you do through your hope stream community? Is that the kind of support that you offer for families?

Brenda Zane:

It is so we’re that kind of safe landing place for the parents to first of all not feel stigmatized. It is so isolating and stigmatizing when you have the bad kid. When you have the kid nobody wants to have at their house because we heard they smoke pot or we heard they were drunk. So kids get isolated but then parents get isolated. So we’re a safe place where everybody’s got the same issue. So there’s no embarrassment. There’s no stigma. And we really focus on getting parents regulated so that you can have those conversations, giving you that place to freak out if you need it. And then we teach an approach called community reinforcement and family training, which is a very specific approach that is designed to work, have parents and loved ones work with somebody who is resistant to getting help. And so it’s basically there’s modules that you go through.

You learn how to use behavioral techniques and how to use CBT and motivational interviewing to dig underneath, understand what’s really going on and then motivate them to make changes in their behavior and to accept help. Whether that’s just get working with a coach or a therapist or if maybe they need to go to residential treatment, whatever that looks like is unique to that family. But that’s what we do because I didn’t have that when I was going through this and I really needed that place. And when I came through the other side, I was like, wait a minute, where are all the parents hanging out? Because this sucks so hard and it’s so scary. And so when I didn’t find it, I built it. And so Hope Stream exists solely for that, for parents of teens and young adults who are experimenting, who are in active addiction, who are in a treatment program or maybe they’re on those wobbly legs, like coming out of treatment and starting a new life of sobriety and recovery. It’s just so much for parents to navigate. So we try to make it super easy, kind of one stop, like everything you need is here.

Debbie:

I think with any kind of big, difficult challenges, you know, again, with mental health challenges with, you know, a child who is struggling with suicidal ideation, or, know, whatever those really heavy things are, it can be so isolating, and then parents are often afraid to talk about it openly. And then so then it makes it harder to find other people who can relate. And it’s so important to find people who relate because going back to what we talked about in the very beginning, it can feel when you’re in it that it’s not survivable if you’re really in the dark, dark place.

Brenda Zane:

Yes. Yes. And you feel like it’s going to last forever. So you don’t think that your kid’s ever going to get out of it. And the other thing that I think is important for parents to understand is you did not cause this. So this is you can just check that off your list. You don’t even have to worry about it. It’s been proven in research. You did not cause this. However, we can contribute to an ongoing cycle of dysfunction in the family. And like you said, with suicidality and other mental health issues, most of these kids also have that. And so it’s not just the substance use. You’re trying to untangle this knot of substance use, depression, maybe some other diagnosis, and then there’s always something else going on, right? So we change schools. Was it the school or we moved? Was it the move? So you’re trying to untangle all of these layers and to do that alone is just excruciating. And the other thing it does if you’re trying to do it alone is it delays you finding resources because you’re, you know, if your child had cancer, you probably wouldn’t feel uncomfortable to go to another parent and say, my gosh, do you know the best adolescent oncologist in our state. But if your child is struggling with substance use and depression and isolation and cutting, that’s not the kind of thing you just go to your neighbor and you’re like, hey, got any resources for me? So it’s really important to find these communities and to know that you don’t have to be embarrassed about it. You didn’t cause it because we can quickly help get those resources and learn these skills and these tools because with the THC today and with fentanyl in the market, you don’t have time to, you know, kind of hem and haw around about it and be alone and isolate. You just don’t, it’s too dangerous. And so we try to just get people up to speed very quickly and get them on a path of like, this is how you’re gonna move through this.

Debbie:

So great. So there’s so much more that we could go into, but I feel like we covered a lot in this conversation. And I would really encourage listeners to check out Brenda’s resources. And maybe you could spend a minute just telling us a little bit more about HopeStream and about your podcasts and other ways that parents can engage.

Brenda Zane:

Yes, so the podcast is called conveniently Hope stream. So you can look that up on all podcast players. And I recommend starting there because it will ground you in some of the concepts that we teach. And it’s obviously free, accessible anywhere. And nobody has to know that you’re listening to it. So I always say start with a podcast. We do have a membership community. So when you’re ready to like, OK, now I’m ready. I’ve got to do something about this, HopeStreamCommunity.org and you can find everything there. We have a membership. We have a wing of the house of the membership for dads. So they get their own space. They can have their own private meetings and conversations. And then we have a space for moms where they do their thing. And we also teach classes and workshops outside of the membership. So you could listen to the podcast. You could come to a workshop on boundaries. How do I set and hold boundaries with a 16 year old? Who is smoking weed every day? Like, how do I do that? We teach that. So those are the kinds of things that we focus on in the community and also on the podcast and in our workshops.

Debbie:

So wonderful. Thank you. And thank you just generally speaking for what you do for turning your pain and your experience into a resource that obviously is helping and supporting so many families and for coming on the show and talking with us about it. I learned a lot in this conversation. I just really appreciate you for what you do in the world. Thank you

Brenda Zane:

Thank you so much. And likewise, it’s so great to have people out here doing the hard thing and helping families. So thank you.