A Montessori Approach to Raising Neurodivergent Children, with Simone Davies & Junnifa Uzodike

Debbie: 

Hello Simone and Junnifa, welcome to the podcast. Listeners, I just have to say, you’ve probably heard me mention Simone’s name before someone’s been on the show several times, and was there from the very beginning of creating this. And we actually have had a conversation generally about Montessori as a philosophy. But that was years ago, too. And so for those who are even new to the concept of Montessori, where they may just have this idea in their mind of what it is, but they don’t have a true definition. I would love to start. So we’re all on the same page, if you can succinctly describe or define what the Montessori philosophy is for us.

Junnifa Uzodike: 

Sure, when we were writing this part of the book, we actually taught for a long time, you know, that one series, so many things. So how do you kind of pull it together and give it one name. And I think that, for us, Montessori is the lens through which you view your children, it’s, it’s an idea, it’s a way of seeing children or being with them, of responding to them, of guiding them. So it’s a lens where you’re viewing them, not just by what you see in front of you, but the potential that they carry, and not looking at them as inadequate or not able to do things but more or less capable, able to do things, able to think for themselves, able to make decisions. It’s also, I think, a way of being with children, where you respect them, where you trust that they are able to learn, that they are able to grow, that they are trying, you know, within their capacity, but there is a possibility of them to continue to grow and evolve. And then it’s an understanding of how human beings develop because Dr. Montessori came up with frameworks around which we can view a child’s development. So it’s an understanding that children don’t grow in a straight line, they have phases or stages of development that they pass through. And at each stage, they might act different, look different, you know, your child changes as they grow from zero to six is the first plane, where they’re we have an absorbent mind that children can take in everything in their environment without effort. And then as they get older, from six to 12. It’s almost like a new child is born. So it’s your same child. But there’s different characteristics that we carry now. And so they’re different. They don’t have the absorbent mind anymore. But they have a logical mind. So they’re asking you a lot of questions like why, how, you know, you have to now explain to them where you could have just told them before. Another difference from the first thing to the second plane is that the child in the first thing might have been very orderly, they have a sense of order. And then on the second plane, you have this child who is more messy, more, you know, scattered to Montessori allows you to view your child and understand what is normal, so you know what to expect. And you can view them with the correct lenses. So it’s all of those things, and even more, but at least that’s a starting point. And it’s a way of being with your child where you’re not leading them, but you’re guiding them, you’re understanding them and you’re walking beside them as they develop, not trying to form them. Because you know that we’re not pouring things into them. But just basically cultivating, you’re preparing the environment, kind of like a farmer or like a gardener, who’s like, making sure that conditions are ideal for their development, but then you’re allowing them to develop by themselves. That was a lot of things with that. So Montessori is a lot of things.

Debbie: 

Yeah, and you are really scratching the surface too because it is a lot of things. And your book goes into so much beautiful detail about that and really helps me understand it in a way that I hadn’t before. Also, in your answer, you’ve said so many words that I loved, capable, respect, trust these things that are so important in our community of parents and really that respectful relationship with our kids. So I wanted to ask you then, in the very first chapter of the book, you come right out and say that Montessori is for every child and you believe it can be applied in any home with any child from any background anywhere in the world. Knowing who the audience is for this show parents and caregivers racing neurodivergent kids, can you just spend a minute speaking to why Montessori can be a great approach for differently wired kids, no matter how they’re wired?

Simone Davies:  

Yeah, it’s so easy actually to apply Montessori to a neurodivergent child because with Montessori we’re looking at each child and supporting their development uniquely. And so it’s just seeing, how can we adjust the environment to support them? How can we adjust ourselves to support them? And so with neurodivergent children who have individual needs and different ways of learning and different interests, it means that we are just doing that in a very natural way in a Montessori approach. So if our child gets distracted very easily, then we might set up our environment at home so that there’s a table that points to the wall so that when they want to not be overwhelmed by what’s going on in the rest of the home, they’re facing a wall, it could be that there’s headphones available that they put on to make, you know, more calm for them. Or it could be that a child needs to know exactly what’s happening in their day. So we come up with a visual schedule, so that that helps them. So it’s always just looking at each child, what they need, how they learn what’s important to them, and adjusting like, because it’s basically a child’s always growing and like Jennifer touched on, they always change as well before we start to get used to one thing, and then they change. And so it’s so much fun actually to apply Montessori with neurodivergent children because we accept every child for who they are. And so they just feel loved and supported.

Debbie: 

And as you were saying that I’m thinking about this role of us as parents, and I know one of the key pieces of bringing Montessori into the home, which is really what your books are all about. Because, you know, I think a lot of us, well, definitely me, I always thought of Montessori just as an educational philosophy, but you’re really showing how to make this integrated in a family life and just make it the way in which you navigate everything you do in raising your kids. One of the key pieces of that is you talk about redefining our roles as our kids’ parents and embracing this idea of being our children’s guide. Can you expand on that? And what does it mean to be a guide? I love that language.

Junnifa Uzodike:

So being a guide is kind of like what we do in the classrooms. I’m also a Montessori teacher. So in the classroom, we as teachers are not trying to put our agenda or our desires on the child. We’re following the child in the sense that we observe them to see what are their interests? What are their strengths? Which way do they want to go today, and then we prepare the environment and remove obstacles. So obstacles might be like Simone said, a child who struggles with focus, obstacles might be the noise, and we can offer them things that help block out the noise. So I think the biggest difference between a guide and teacher or parent is that we are following the child. And we’re following them with knowledge and understanding. So we know how children develop, we know what their needs are, we know humans, because both children and adults actually have pretty much the same needs. They’re called human tendencies, where they need to explore, they need to move, they need to communicate, they need to repeat, so we know all of the things that they need. And then we observe and see, are there opportunities for the child to get this? How do they respond to the environment that we have prepared for them? And what changes do we need to make when we see that they’re not connecting with the environment or connecting with the opportunities that we have provided to them? What changes can we make based on their interest? So a leader or I don’t want to use leader like an authoritarian or like someone who’s like just wanting a teacher might say, Okay, today, I want to teach addition, and they have their agenda on how they’re going to teach addition, and the child comes, they don’t look at, you know, how the child is feeling. Or if there’s a time that is ideal to connect with the child. And they just say, at eight o’clock, I’m teaching addition, you have to get a guide, on the other hand, will have observed to see, oh, usually, maybe my two does better, he’s more accepting or more receptive of concepts at a certain time. And then he’s interested in cars, maybe I can teach him addition using cars. So in a way, you’re observing the child, and you’re responding to them, or you’re guiding them along the path they’re supposed to go, but taking into consideration interests, their personalities, their capabilities, and all of that. So I think that those are the biggest differences between parenting and parenting as a guide. I think the other thing is, there is a balance, a guy doesn’t allow the child to do everything they will, like, regardless of whether it’s right or wrong, you know, like, there’s usually two sides, it’s like you want the child to do only what you said they should do, or you allow them to do whatever they want to do. There’s that kind and firm like somewhere in the middle where you’re authoritative, but you’re not authoritarian. So you’re kind of firm. You help them to set the boundaries, and you help keep the boundaries. But you always do that kindly and long. So I think that those are some of the things that being a guidance is parenting from a place of knowledge and always walking with your child in mind with what you know of them and what you’ve observed of them.

Debbie: 

I love that approach so much. And in the tilled parenting community, we’ve talked about becoming fluent and who our kids are, and there’s so many things as I was reading your book, I was like, yes, yes. And Simone you You and I have talked about this over the years of how the Montessori approach so much of it is really based on the things that a lot of us parenting neurodivergent kids naturally do, which is really following our child’s lead, getting to know them on a deep level where they are, and then adapting and scaffolding to support wherever they are so, so much alignment here, which is one of the things I love about the work that you guys do, we’re going to take a quick break. And then I want to get into this idea of letting go of control. There’s a rather lengthy quote that I pulled out, but I want to share it because it jumped out at me, it takes practice to let go of some control to step back and step in when our child really needs support, to allow them to experience all of their feelings and provide supportive needed like rubbing their back, or helping them make amends. Once they’re calm. They give them time to develop skills like dressing themselves, preparing their own lunch, writing a thank you note or making a repair with a friend. It requires patience. This is a long term approach, not a quick fix, we’re laying a foundation of trust and connection. So your child knows they can come to us even when they’re not at their best, that will love them at their worst and guide them to become independent so that they can help themselves others in the world. Can you talk about this idea of letting go of control because control is a big theme for me personally, as you know, because we often have chats about parenting. But just in general, when you have a child who is showing up in a way that can be really confronting and different spaces, it can be really hard to not have that agenda and to really let go of control. So can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like? Maybe in the context of a situation where a neurodivergent kid might be having a hard time and a parent is really trying to exert control to get something moving forward in the way we want to?

Simone Davies: 

Yeah, I think letting go is such a hard part because we’re so used to maybe being parented ourselves in a top down way where we had to do it in a certain way. And so letting go kind of means we trust the child, and they’re going to work it out themselves. So for example, your child hasn’t done their homework, and they’re gonna get in trouble tomorrow, if they haven’t done their homework, and we start to take it on as our problem. And so we start to think, how are we going to make them do their homework? And one story guide would be, Oh, I see that it’s nearly dinnertime, and I know that you had some homework to do, is there something that you need from me that would help you to make that homework happen? And otherwise, you know, just let me know if you’d come up against anything. And then if we notice, they’re still like, kind of running around getting distracted? Let’s say, Okay, we’ve got 15 minutes before dinner, and you’ve got some homework. How much time do you need? Is there anything I can do? And again, like you basically kind of clear you make it happen. Like, it’s not an option not to do the homework. But how can we make it as pleasant as possible for you to get that done? What are you missing? Is it something you’re not able to do? And so if you have a neurodivergent child, who, for example, is having trouble writing an essay or writing it down, you could say, could you dictate it to me and I will write to you, and I know, you’ve done that when you are homeschooling, right? And so it’s basically helping them with as little help as possible, but as much as necessary. And then the other thing is, maybe they don’t get their homework done, you’ve offered the help, you’ve given some assistance, and they still don’t get it through, well, then you let them experience the natural consequences that at school, they might get in trouble. Because that actually is going to be a greater consequence, then of you kind of shouting at them taking it on as your problem. And they realize, oh, actually, I have to take responsibility for it. This is my development, this is my work, and not my parents, or my caregivers. So that’s kind of one example that just comes to mind. Like, how can we let go let them make mistakes, sometimes, you know, a child might melt down, and then you will just support them when they melt down. But you let them make the mistakes, and you are there to be their guide. Yeah, you’re not there to take away that pain. Like parenting. I thought it was always to make our child happy. And it’s not to deal with the ups and downs that life kind of presents for us. Yeah, and

Debbie: 

I just want to add in. So listeners, you should just know Simone, and I talk about this stuff all the time. And she’s actually one of my members of my high Jedi Council, my parenting advisory board. So we have kind of our own language here. But I just want to kind of say for listeners, too, that this is also done with the knowledge that we have of where our child is. So if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, but if I let my child experience this failure in this situation, it could result in a big emotional setback or, you know, my child’s in a burnout stage. And so therefore, and so I just want to throw that out there. This is all done in conjunction with the knowledge of where your child is, and it might be a moving target that changes day to day. It’s being really attuned to what’s happening with them. Am I getting that right?

Simone Davies: 

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, great.

Debbie: 

I wanted to just spend a few minutes talking about another part of your book, which is really this idea of raising kids who have a strong moral compass, you were so thoughtful and intentional, even with the subtitle of the book, which is a parent’s guide to raising capable children with creative minds and compassionate hearts. And I know that it was really intentional to use that language. Can you talk a little bit about that side of Montessori and raising children who have kind of a strong moral center and can show up to the world and to society as a compassionate being.

Junnifa Uzodike:

So it’s, again as the children grew, which to them is different, because they’re in different planes of development, for a very young child, and the first thing of development, we are a child’s model, we are children’s models. So we model to them how we want them to be right, we create a home environment that has the temperature that will define what their temperature is going to be as they grow older. So in the things that we say to them in the way that we handle displeasure, in the way that we are kind of like refreeze where we’re trying to when they have this agreement, maybe they have a sibling, and we have a disagreement. So in the way that we manage those disagreements, so we model to them and the way that we relate to people outside our home and within our modeling to them. If we have belief systems, value systems, we’re sharing them and immersing them in those belief and value systems. As they get older, in the second thing, they will start to experience those things for themselves. The second thing is a very social thing where the child wants to be with other people, they want to be with their friends, maybe they want to have sleepovers, they go out as part of any social relationship, there are disagreements, right? Or they encounter things that they have to kind of decide for themselves what we feel about it. And so we have a lot of conversations with them, where we’re teaching them to manage complex, but helping them to think through situations to decide or to understand why is this right? Or why is this wrong? You know, because every situation needs thoughts. We can say to them, it’s wrong, don’t do that. And, but that’s not the way we do it. In Montessori, we talk to them and just try to help them understand. Sometimes another person’s belief might be different from our belief, or we talk to them about it and help them see things from different lenses. I think part of being a moral person is knowing for yourself what you believe, but also respecting what other people believe or not feeling like everybody has to believe what you believe. And so we have those conversations with them. And then as they grow older, they will go into the world and try to figure it out for themselves. And so hopefully, all of that modeling conversation, all of the things that we have exposed them to will prepare them to be able to make those decisions. Now there are some specific things that children deal with. But like lying, for example, that’s something that every child deals with at some time, right? So knowing that it’s actually a stage that the child past, you know, we address in the book, some of the ways that you can address it, not putting the child in misery sometimes we actually put our children in situations where they lie, when you say something like, you couldn’t have done that, right. But we don’t know that they couldn’t have done it, you know, like so instead of giving them an opportunity to explain that I give that example, because I’ve done it before. So sometimes we put our children unknowingly in a situation where, okay, because I already said to him, he couldn’t have done it. So he might feel like oh, okay, well, maybe I shouldn’t tell her that I actually did it, you know, so like having the right language to exchange with our children so that they can be honest with us. And then when we do like, walking them through the process where they can make restitution and just reinforcing what our values are.

Simone Davies: 

I think one of the really beautiful things about moral development as well is this grace and courtesy lessons that we have in Montessori, which we started to introduce from three to six years old. And in the Montessori classroom, it might be like respecting others in the space by learning how to walk around their mat, and not bumping into furniture and things like that, which I think would be really helpful for neurodivergent families, because a child is not trying to give you a hard time, but they just don’t know the skill yet, or they’re forgotten, and they need to learn the skill again. And so it might be learning to shake hands when you arrive at a home and introducing yourself, or how to excuse yourself from the table. And we actually give them little lessons and practice it. So until then it actually becomes normal. And then you don’t have to say, Oh, what do you say, you know, you basically just keep modeling it and trusting that it’s going on and practice the situations and that basically builds up skills so that they’ll be able to do it themselves.

Debbie: 

I wanted to talk about this idea of talking in a way that helps our kids listen, you have a chart in the book that I really loved, it was so helpful to know how to navigate different situations and how we can both respectfully communicate while also helping our kids learn a specific skill. And Simone, we talked about declarative language in the past. And listeners, I see a lot of overlap with Linda Murphy’s book declarative language handbook and how to speak to kids in a way that, again, is really respect based. But I’m wondering if you could give us an example or to see how we might use this approach of talking in a way that our child can listen, for example, maybe a child doesn’t want to leave a play date. And that’s just like a hard pass. And they’re like, No, I’m saying how do we talk in a way about that, getting our needs across while also helping them feel respected and heard. So

Simone Davies: 

Yes, in that diagram, in that chart, it basically talks about how we can be working with our child, as opposed to doing something to them. So Alfie Kohn, if you’ve ever read unconditional parenting, he also talks about the idea of you know, if you have a bribe or a threat or a punishment, basically, that’s an extrinsic motivation. And in Montessori, we’re always trying to work with our child to get the outcome. So if we want to leave the playground, it would be okay, I noticed that you really want to play longer, what would be one or two more things you want to play with before we finish? And actually one or two is actually very vague, I need to be more specific, like, what’s the last thing that you want to lay it too, because then you come to some agreements together. And then once they’ve done one more time, they want to do one more thing, then we just be kind and clear. Yeah, you want to play. And it’s important that we get home to cook together. And then we kind of come up with a solution that maybe they will help us cook dinner and then we can leave together? Or that I find ways that they might like to help me or can you help me? Can you carry the keys and I’ll carry the bags, and you’re basically always just on their team, the same principle of being their guide is that we’re sitting on the same side of the table. I’m not saying and getting into a conflict situation, you can’t basically have a power struggle with someone if you’re in agreement. Yeah, you want to stay at the playground and dinner’s in five minutes once we get home. So you’re always also recognizing your own needs and your child’s needs. Because I think Montessori, we learn this term, follow the child. So we’re following their lead. And we’re being very respectful. And it’s okay for us to reach our limit as well. So again, they’re coming up against our freedom, and we find ways that work for the whole family.

Debbie: 

Yes, we’re all on the same team. And that is such a good reminder. And it’s not always how we feel when we’re parenting. I also just want to throw out to listeners, I had Alfie Kohn on the podcast many many years ago. I’m a big fan of his work, and especially his book, unconditional parenting. So if you want to explore that further, I will have a link in the show notes page. So we’re gonna take a quick break and then I wanted to talk about family agreements. So we’ll be right back. And we are back. And I wanted to spend a few minutes talking about family and agreements. I love this idea of having those be really anchors of a family, especially when we’re going through tricky situations or difficult moments, we can go back to those agreements that we created together. So could you take a few minutes to explain what family agreements are, and maybe give us an example of how it can be so supportive to a family when we’re going through something that we really need to be on the same team.

Junnifa Uzodike:

So family agreements, I think that as our children start to get older, maybe I think, I don’t know how early Simone does it. But I would say like four or five, where they’re moving towards that reasoning mind, we can start to have family meetings, where we talk about what we want as a family, or what how we want to relate with each other the conditions that we want in our home, how we speak to each other, how we interact with each other, do we push each other is that okay? Now home, or perhaps we touch each other gently, or we only touch each other without permission, it will look different in every home, depending on what your preferences are. But it’s something that we agreed together as a family, the adults and the children. And so that when something goes wrong, so I have four children, three of them are in the second plane, six, eight and 10. And so we agreed together that we eat dinner together. So if for example, on an evening, somebody says I don’t feel like eating dinner, we can refer back. But this is an agreement that we came to together, that we sit down together, even if it’s a little bit, it’s our way to connect at the end of the day. And so instead of me saying, you know, we have to eat dinner, I can just ask, do you remember what we agreed about dinner, and then it’s coming from them, it’s not something that I’m forcing upon them, it’s something that they have agreed to that they knew. And then we can all center back. Or if we have an argument, or she pushed me or she pushed me, by themselves, they can advocate for themselves in our home, we touch each other gently in our home, we speak to each other respectfully. And so it kind of becomes like the ethos like how we work together in our home that we can always it’s kind of like an anchor that we can always come back to, they can remind each other, you can have it even written out and printed and pasted somewhere, you know, hung up somewhere in your room, or in your home. And I think something important to mention is that it’s it’s fixed for a period, but you have frequent family meeting. So you can always revisit it, perhaps, you know, they come to a time where now they’d like to play together and tickle each other. Do we need to adjust our agreement to make sure that everyone’s needs are being met? So this is how we use it in our home. I don’t know if Simone has something to add to it. No,

Simone Davies: 

I totally agree. And they like living documents. But it’s not in those moments when a child’s melting down going on it you know they’re complaining about it’s like, oh, it looks like that might be an agreement that we should review at our next meeting. Or some people don’t have family meetings. But you can just be like at dinner time when we’re all in conversation and calm times. That’s when you might make adjustments to the document and everyone agrees on it. I used to use the word house rules. And I just love these house agreements like family agreements, because as Jennifer says, everyone’s agreeing to it. And when you’ve had input into it, then you’re more likely to stick to the agreement. And you asked about the age groups that I would use agreements for. And I agree. Like I took the idea initially from a Montessori classroom, because in six to 12 year old classrooms, they spend time at the beginning of every year making agreements for the class, how would everyone feel safe? How will everyone feel they belong? And then again, they make these living documents, these agreements for the classroom. But you notice that from four or five, the children in our homes can also be involved in making the family agreements. So yeah, I agree with Jennifer on that as well. Yeah,

Debbie: 

I love that I had all these little questions too, you answered all of them, in terms of is it a living document and how to actually establish them? Just because you guys have talked about ages and your book is broken down by these planes, which are associated with ages. And, you know, I just released an episode today as we’re recording this with Dr. Jade Rivera, about twice exceptional kids. And I asked her a question about At what age would we do this? And she’s like, well, how can we talk about age when we’re talking about kids who are so asynchronously developing and are neurodivergent? How should listeners think about this idea of age and planes when we know that our kids are on different developmental trajectories and may be very uneven? Yeah,

Simone Davies: 

I think that’s such a good question, because everyone is going on their own timeline, and it’s so it’s a guideline, but basically, Dr. Montessori developed these four planes of development saying, children between zero and six have similar characteristics. Children from six to 12 have similar characteristics from 12 to 18 have similar characteristics and 18 to 24 have similar characteristics. Next, And then what you see is that sometimes you’ll see a child transitioning between the planes from like five years old, a child might start going to the second plane. And they might have a foot in this first plane or like until they’re seven. So there’s like a very wide range. And it just gives you a lens as to say, Oh, why would my child now be complaining about this? Oh, because they’re representing a second plane characteristic. But that doesn’t mean that maybe some of their functional independence, like being able to dress themselves, they’re still kind of like the first paying child. So it’s definitely a useful lens to view the child, it’s not set in stone, and not on the sixth birthday, this person transitions between the planes. But I’ve just found that like, knowing the four planes of development, and what we discussed in the book has just been like a guidebook for me to what to expect from my child, the six to 12 years are more calm, because there’s less growth going on in their bodies, you know, it’s a more stable period, they want mental independence, they’re actually very capable of doing a lot of imagination and a big work in that time. So it would actually be even though your neurodivergent child might not be able to tie the laces, they can think of maybe amazing, crazy, like interesting ideas. So I think it’s a really helpful framework, even if you have neurodivergent children, not to put them in a box. But actually, instead to expand the possibilities. And kind

Debbie: 

of make sense of, of changes that we see to have that I mean, it’s such a different way of looking at it, like, oh, there’s an evolution happening here. And we’re kind of moving maybe in this area into a different level of development, which is completely adaptive. And it’s how kids evolve. So that’s really helpful. I wanted to call out this part of the book, which I loved, called working with others. You really discuss this notion that it takes a village to raise our kids and that we can’t raise our children in isolation, which again, I love that so much. And you included some guidelines on how to be clear about our philosophy as parents when we’re interacting with other people. And again, it’s so important for this community of listeners, because our kids are so often misunderstood in different spaces, they may be seen for their relative weaknesses and set up their strengths might even be coming from our own families, extended families of people who don’t really understand who our kids are, do you have any thoughts you can share with us on how we might make sure we’re creating the types of supportive relationships that would really help our families,

Junnifa Uzodike:

I think that communication is a big curve ball to what like when we say it takes a village. So for your village communication, helping them to understand, I find that most people want to respect what we believe if they understand, a lot of times, they have misconceptions about, you know, maybe how you raise your child or how your child is, they may not know, most people operate based on what they have experienced. So perhaps they haven’t experienced this way of being with a child or have an experience with a child that has the same. So I think, coming to it from a place of sharing knowledge, sharing information, asking for what you need and advocating for your child as respectfully and kindly as you can. But also understanding that people are in different places, and will take the information that you give them based on their own experiences. So I think for me, the biggest thing is actually communication. And I knew that for parents of a neurodivergent. Child, there were other considerations. But I found that even as a Montessori parents, I have to educate a lot. Educate my husband, the reasons why I’m responding to my children, the way that I am, educate my parents, and you keep other people who helped me with my children. If they go to classes outside, I have to educate them. But I also respect the choices that they make, if it crosses the boundaries that I think are not ideal for my child. I then you know, maybe limit access, but always from a place of respect for my needs, my child’s needs, and their own choices. So I think for me, the biggest thing is just communication. Many times it’s just a lack of information or misunderstanding I have found so yeah, I want to say something about the theme of development. I wanted to say I think someone said it. But I wanted to say that the reason why I found the planes of development to be so helpful is that many milestone charts or milestone guidelines are actually based only on the age, like when there are two they’re supposed to be able to do so. And therefore, I think that the place of development actually tells you what characteristics to look for. So that’s why when your child is five, and they’re starting to show the characteristics, so if they are nine and they’re showing the characteristics, you can understand it. So a child of at five might stutter. asked questions about everything you told them to do, or a child might, nine might be doing that. Or you might find like that loss of order, like a child that was so organized before, it’s now kind of living things everywhere, or has a desire to be others. I think that understanding the characteristics, not just looking at the age as a guideline, but really understanding the characteristics is something so you can look at your child and look for those characteristics instead of focusing just on the numbers.

Debbie: 

Yeah, thanks for that. That’s really helpful. And I appreciate the mention of those milestone charts, which are kind of the bane of our existence for so many of us who have kids who are on their own unique timeline as really every child is. But those types of charts tend to really highlight things that can feel really difficult for families in my community to navigate. So thank you, you guys have such a detailed appendix in the back of this book, which offers so many ideas for how to do this in the home and activities. This is a very, very well researched and thoughtful resource for parents. So I really encourage listeners to check this out. It’s also just mentioned, there’s the Montessori baby. There’s the Montessori toddler. Now this is the Montessori child. And even at the end of this book, is the section that I’m most interested in, which is really about adolescence and beyond so many great insights in there. Is there anything before we say goodbye that we didn’t touch upon that you want to make sure our listeners take away from this conversation and what you’re putting out into the world?

Simone Davies: 

I think one thing I would add is how Montessori really enables us to see how capable our children are. And Jennifer mentioned that word capable at the very beginning of the interview. And I think it’s so important because so often we do things for our child, and Dr. Montessori said don’t help a child with something that they can do themselves because it disempowers them, you know, they actually feel really successful, and can be a three year old, who’s just learning to use the toilet for themselves. Or it might be a little bit later, but I’m just giving you some ideas, you know that they think, yeah, I can use the potty for myself, or they wet their pants, and they actually can manage to take off the wet pants, put them into a bucket, they can go and get some dry trousers, they can wipe up the floor. And then they’re like, I can manage myself, you know. So when they can feel empowered about their self care, then they can actually look after others and they can care for their environment as well. And then when you get a six to 12 year old, and they want to have an interest in something that they want to find out about, then they can plan their own excursion, they can make a phone call, they can organize the tickets, they can organize the public transport route, and you can be there as more like a chaperone, rather than being in charge and organizing the whole thing. And if they get on the wrong bus, you’re there while they get on the wrong bus in the wrong direction. And the consequences is that they’ll realize at some point that they’ve gone the wrong way. And you may never make it to your destination, but they’re learning about what happens when you get it wrong. And the next time they’ll probably look which direction do I need to get on? So I think that capability is amazing. I get even when we talk about adolescents, not the Montessori talks about the Earth Kinder program where they’re working on a farm. And then the children are actually responsible for feeding the animals, making sure they’ve got their meals, that they’ve got enough money to meet their expenses, if there’s a light bulb out that they change the light bulb. So all of these kinds of things, are we actually giving our children responsibility so that they can feel capable and contribute to their family?

Debbie: 

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Because I think you know, that aligns so much with what we’ve talked about, which is looking for the learning and everything. And it’s all about scaffolding and seeing where our kids are. But parents raising neurodivergent kids, we often are scaffolding so much. And it can be hard to know when it’s time to take a little bit down and see what our child’s capable of doing and learning in that way. So thanks for that. Anything you want to add, Junnifa before we say goodbye?

Junnifa Uzodike:

Yes, I think for me, what I would like to say is that in being a guide, you actually have to do the work on yourself. And sometimes the work is just taking care of yourself. Because it’s easy to observe your child when you’re not exhausted, you’re not frustrated, when you’re not, you know, overwhelmed. And I know that that happens a lot as a parent, but I think just taking time to fill your own cup, as much as possible, making time for it. Prioritizing it I think is so important because we’re part of the child’s environment. Remember, the child is like a plant. We cannot make it grow faster. We can only be the soil water, it’s so we are part of that environment so we can care for the environment. It will help us in the way that we respond to our child in the way that we see our children in the way that we’re able to guide our child. So I think always also doing the work on yourself which involves caring for yourself. As parents, you can focus so much on caring for your child or care for yourself. You’ll be a better guy

Debbie: 

You’re speaking my language, thank you so much. We need to be filling our cup always so But a great note to end this conversation on where can listeners learn more about the Montessori child and dive into your work?

Simone Davies: 

I have links on my website over at themontessorinotebook.com.

Junnifa Uzodike:

I have links on my website https://nduoma.com/. I’m also on Instagram Montessori Nduoma.

Debbie: 

I’ll have a pretty detailed show notes page with a lot of resources that we talked about, including links to The Montessori Toddler, The Montessori Baby. And, of course, everything we got into today with the Montessori child. Thank you so much, you guys. I really love this conversation. And congratulations on bringing this gorgeous, wonderful resource out into the world. Thank

Simone Davies:

Thank you, Debbie, for your very thoughtful questions, and we look forward to seeing you soon.