How to Help Our Kids Thrive in Tough Times, with Stephanie Malia Krauss

Debbie Reber  

Hey, Stephanie, welcome back to the podcast.

Stephanie Krauss  

Debbie, I’m so excited to be back with you.

Debbie Reber  

I am excited to dive into your awesome new book. I just want to say before we even get started, I did read your bio. But listeners, if you haven’t heard my conversation with Stephanie, the first time she was on the podcast, which was during, like the height of the pandemic at this point, but it was about Stephanie’s book called Making it which is such a fascinating look at what our kids really need to grow up to be adults who can thrive in this ever changing world. So definitely go back and listen to that. I’ll have a link in the show notes. But we are going to be talking about your new book, Stephanie today, which is called Whole Child, Whole Life. But could you bridge the gap for us from our last conversation? And what has changed in your world and led to you really feeling compelled to write this next book and get it out into the world?

Stephanie Krauss  

Yeah, absolutely. So for folks who haven’t listened to that first conversation, I’ll just share that before coming on the podcast the first time, Debbie, as you know, I was a longtime listener with my husband. This is his podcast of choice when he’s out mowing the lawn and this space to like prompt, important parenting conversations, because we have two differently wired kids. And this has been such a resource and community. And so it’s from that place, and also a background in education and social work that I come into this conversation. And I think that bridging between a pandemic conversation where I had written a book about what our kids need next, when they leave us in this crazy, rapidly changing world. What was happening when that conversation was happening in real time, was, as I was going out and talking about the book, talking about the future, I kept hearing people ask the same question over and over again, which was, how do we make sure that our kids don’t give up? Or burnout before they get there? Like, we do need to know what our kids need next. But what do they need right now, and what is most timely, and timeless, like it’s going to work, no matter what the conditions are, no matter what the circumstances are, the book came out at the very beginning of the summer 2023. And before that, it was really a whirlwind, like nine months of writing, the US Surgeon General had declared that we were facing an unprecedented Youth Mental Health Crisis, which I was feeling and experiencing in my own home, and my friends were also experiencing with their kids. And so what Whole Child, Whole Life was, was really like writing the book I needed right now, which was this cross training reference of all the things we need to know, that go into making sure our kids can be healthy and whole. And I think that has been the journey I’ve been on also, as a mom coming out of that locked down wave of the pandemic, but continuing to live in a world that is altered. And that needs that constant kind of like adjustment and recalibration that still feels very chaotic, constantly asking, like, what can it take for me and my kids to thrive? Regardless of what’s going on around us?

Debbie Reber  

Yeah, it’s so great. And I do just want to say that I wish we had a lawn to mow because that’s maybe how I would get my husband to listen to the show. So I really love that. We don’t have that right now. So anyway, I’ll just say that we’ve been connected since we met several years ago because of your book Making it and I’ve watched you birth this book. And I have noticed just such a sense of urgency and passion and purpose behind getting out into the world. And so it’s just good to kind of hear from you why this book really needed to happen now because it really is something that it didn’t exist until you wrote this book. It To Me offers such a different lens and framework for parents to think about how to support our kids in these trying complicated times. Could you give us kind of an overview of what you presented in the book, how you’ve designed it, because again, it isn’t your typical like parenting 101 Do this, do this, do this. But you really go into the demographics and the research and you really do such a good job of presenting the landscape that we’re raising our kids in today.

Stephanie Krauss  

Yeah, so I want to hop back over to when I wrote making it for a moment because the impetus for me to start writing was you know, I was a parent I had been a teacher I ran the school was a social worker, sports coach all All these things kind of like on the front lines working with kids. And there were so many questions I had about how to really take good care of them and make sure that they were ready for the world that we were trying to prepare them for. And then I left local work, I left working at a school. And I started working for these national organizations. And what I found was the answers to many of the questions that I had, about what do kids actually need to be ready? What is the science of learning? What is Child and Youth Development, what are developmental stages, all of these pieces they were being talked about in these national conferences and conversations. But very often, almost always, those conversations did not have parents and teachers and coaches and counselors in it, you had thought leaders and policymakers and other folks who weren’t on the front lines. And so I started writing and the way that I write was trying to get the very best science and resources and research about who kids are and what they need, translated in a way that makes sense for any adult who cares for kids. Because I think that we have a job to do. It’s an unpaid job to do. It’s a labor of love. But raising kids. It’s a job, right? It’s hard work. And yet, we don’t go to school for it. We don’t get great training in it. And there are really important things across human development and health and learning and education, and even longevity science that can really support and help our job of raising these kids to be able to enjoy their childhoods and to be equipped for whatever comes next. 

So Whole Child, Whole Life was meant to be designed as that resource for the job we have of caring for kids and raising them. What are all the things that we need to know that the science tells us and that stories from the ground, say are true, are needed to help kids thrive not only now, but also in adulthood. So very often, you’ll hear people talk about, like, lifelong learning. And you know, the foundation for learning starts in childhood. But there’s also like, lifelong thriving, and the foundation for that also starts in childhood. And so the book is divided into three different sections. The first part is a look at who the whole child is. And that is mostly informational that digs into what do we know about how young people are wired? I mean, very much your work? And what do we need to know about child and youth development? What do we need to know about pediatric and adolescent health? What do we need to know about the people in places that are in a kid’s life, and what that means for them, and so it kind of walks through what I call like, a portrait of a whole child, the second part of the book digs into the thing that I think as a parent right now gives me the most hope, which are 10, proven practices, science backed that across history, and cultures and contexts have always supported the well being of kids. And that what is, I think, incredibly powerful for me, as a parent, and a scholar and somebody in this work, the same things that are good for kids are good for adults. So these 10 practices, things like prioritizing mental health, or building community and belonging or embracing identities and cultures. We as adults need to support and practice them with kids. And eventually, they should become self care practices for young people themselves. And then the book ends that third part of like, what is a picture of health and wholeness? How do we know that young people are thriving? What does that look like? And I would say that’d be that the thing that like, is most inspiring to me, as I was working on and writing the book was at the very end, I tell this story. I won’t share it here for time sake. But basically, the end of the book shares that it is possible for young people to thrive, no matter what environment they’re planted in, as long as the conditions are right and that we as the adults have the power and opportunity to create those conditions for kids. So throughout the book, there are like tips and tools and questions and so I really tried to blend science with strategy, while also you’ll have To tell me if I succeeded in this, like having it feel like an enjoyable read as much as it feels like a resource that people can return to?

Debbie Reber  

Well, I think that you did that. And it is I keep saying it’s kind of unique within the landscape. And maybe it’s because it isn’t even really a parenting book. And it’s like helping children thrive book. And I didn’t know what to expect when I got your book. And I really do appreciate the science that you share the research and really, again, like presenting such a solid landscape so we can understand how our kids are moving through the world so that we can be informed in the way that we support them. You start the book by talking about demographics and determinants, I thought that was just such an unusual, again, an important place to start. It’s not something we often consider, but you said, we must push ahead and commit ourselves to gather our materials and expand the picture we have of every child from basic profile to holistic portrait. Can you say a little bit more about that, why you believe it’s so critical that we consider those determining factors when we’re thinking about how to support our kids?

Stephanie Krauss  

Absolutely. So I think I’m going to bring this like directly home to your listeners, thinking about my own experience, which is my kids are being raised by more adults than me and my husband, they are being raised by the adults that they interface with in school. For one of them, you know, his counselor is in their sports coaches are in there. And this is a critically important chapter for parents of differently wired kids because I wanted again, to write this book that was as important to any adult who cares for kids and said, then to teachers, and counselors, let’s say like in an education environment, students are children, and we have to know the whole of who they are. And so let’s take your Asher or my justice are my older son, they walk into a school environment, and based on how they look, who they live with. And the basic data that a teacher or principal is given about who they are their IEP or 504, what the previous teacher said, emails, a one dimensional picture is made of what that means for who they are and how they learn. And almost always, those profiles are harmful. But they’re deeply instructive. Because it reveals how a young person is experienced by other people based on the data about them. And based on how they look and where they live, and the judgments that people make, and also how they’re going to experience the world. It has an outsized impact on them. And so we need to be really considerate and thoughtful, I think, number one, as parents ourselves, of recognizing, especially if we’re, let’s say, you know, we’re in a family where our children look different than us, or they’re growing up differently than we did educating ourselves on what does that mean for the risks and opportunities they’re going to have? What does that mean for how the world is going to treat them, what kinds of vulnerabilities they might experience, and then to recognize that that kind of profiling is going to be done by the other adults who are making decisions about them, often without them. And that it’s our job as parent advocates to push for those adults to go farther. And to get to know more about who those kids are? Demographics and determinants, how a kid looks, how they live, some of those other basics that like a data management system would tell us, they give us the first view. And they give all the other adults who are caring for our child, a view that is probably distorted, but also instructive. And then that’s the starting point. And so my like, suggestion, as we draw those in pencil, we recognize them for what they are we educate ourselves on different aspects, you know, if we have a child again, who has a different identity, sexual identity or gender identity than us, are we doing the research and understanding what that means in terms of how the world is going to treat them, and the opportunities and risks that they’ll face? And then are we tireless advocates for saying that tells you about my kid, but not the whole of who my kid is? And what makes them come to life and let’s get to know that piece?

Debbie Reber  

So good. It’s so thoughtful, and even just saying students or children like that alone is such a powerful statement that I think a lot of us don’t consider. So thank you for that. I want to get into some of the 10 ways There are a couple I wanted to touch upon. And we’ll do that as soon as we get back from this quick break. So the book, again, is called Whole Child, Whole Life: 10 Ways to Help Kids Live, Learn and Thrive. And you mentioned that the second part of the book are these kind of 10 key things that children need to thrive today. And one of those is about prioritizing mental health. Before we even started recording, we were discussing the mental health crisis in the world today. And we know that this is a big factor for all kids, but especially for differently wired kids. So I’m just wondering, could you share with us what are some of the most important things that you think parents and caregivers and educators and the adults in these kids lives need to know when it comes to prioritizing their mental health?

Stephanie Krauss  

So I want to start by going back to one thing that we talked about before the break around, like students are children. So the way that I have described this when I’m talking to teachers, and to schools and districts is like, imagine a kid comes to you, on a Monday after weekend, and you might think of like, this is my job, these are my students. And so the kid comes to you, and it’s like, let me tell you about what happened this weekend, this crazy thing happened. And you look at that child, and you’re like, I’m sorry, you’re just my student. Like, we just talk about things that are connected to school here. For that child, that is a crushing blow, right? Like you can, I can feel that there’s like a visceral reaction I have. And so the first thing I just want to say about prioritizing young people’s mental health is like the RE humanizing of every relationship that they have to in adults, that is an important, affecting relationship, they are affected by how that adult treats them, another adult is affected by how they are treated as well. But we want our kids to be surrounded by a community of caring adults. And that is worth fighting for that is worth making chips for, because I think that we are at a time when we are making decisions about our kids that are life saving, life extending and life giving, life saving, to really understand and underscore that we are in a historic moment where kids have been deeply impacted, and not only differently wired, but rewired by their environments and experiences in a way that has left them vulnerable and wounded, overwhelmingly, especially kids who were already struggling and suffering. And so I would say that if your child has not had a mental health challenge before, the first thing is principally to know that it’s not a matter of if your kid is going to have a mental health challenge, but when your kid has a mental health challenge, and are you ready and equipped for that. And so when we think about prioritizing mental health, I want to situate this in two contexts. One is right now. And then the other is the long view, they’ll sort of lifetime perspective. 

I know Debbie, you’re a runner. So we can think about this as like our sprint and our marathon. So the sprint is the issues that our kids are experiencing right now require that because mental health is health, and because of this showing up as something that is a struggle for so many. So often, we have got to train ourselves in Mental Health First Aid, to become first responders to basic mental health challenges that we see. And so that is actually where the chapter starts is a primer to say, do we know the signs and symptoms that something is wrong? Do we know basic mental health first aid, like the actual scripting of how to respond when something worrisome comes up? Our kid maybe we’re also a coach, or we also work with kids in the job. So the other kids in our life, our kids friends? So what do we do? What’s that mental health first aid? What are the signs and symptoms we need to be aware of? So that’s the sprint a bit how do we like educate ourselves and kind of quickly upskill in being a first responder to a mental health challenge? Are we also then educated? I have a table in the book of just like different types of therapy, like do we even know because when you’re in a crisis, and it feels like an emergency, it is very hard to figure out what is your insurance going to cover and what type Have therapy might work for this situation. So outside of an emergency moment, are we even aware of the types of care that our child might need? And what are good matches? And so kind of like having an emergency mental health plan for our own children? 

And then I think you shift from Sprint into the marathon, which is, what are some emotional hygiene practices and wound care practices, like when a kid is hurt, when a kid is struggling and suffering? What are those tools and tips and tricks that they can learn now in childhood, that will then carry with them across the long arc of their lives? And just like brushing our teeth? How do we tend to that basic emotional hygiene on a daily basis on a weekly basis? In my own house, what that has looked like is one of my children suffers from and he I talk about it in the book, and he actually wrote the preface to the book, he has OCD. And one of the sort of facts that you and I talked about when making it came out that followed me through Whole Child, Whole Life is that science has advanced enough that our kids could, as a probability, live to be 100 or older, like a 100 year life. And a very long life, especially in like such volatility, which for me has meant prioritizing mental health over performance over completing something. If we need to take a break, if we need to take a pause, if we need to adjust what life looks like. It’s a reshuffling and making that a top tier priority.

Debbie Reber  

I want to dive a little bit more into that 100 year mindset, which is also one of the chapters in your book. And we’ll do that right after this quick break. So right before the break, I mentioned that you have a chapter in the book called act with a 100 year mindset. I loved that chapter. And you talked about the power of future forecasting. And I really loved that because I know that so many neurodivergent kids have that cognitive distortion of future casting, but in a negative way. And I’m wondering if you could talk with us a little bit more about what future forecasting is? And what are some of the stages of that, that we can help teach our kids? 

Stephanie Krauss  

Oh my gosh, I love this chapter so much, because I learned so much about it. And I think that you’re right, being a parent of differently wired kids, they’re such a like, one of my kids is such a fatalist. And the idea of like, imagining possible futures for himself, is really hard. And so for this chapter, I got to actually talk to professional futurists trained in sort of looking out like a meteorologist will predict the weather, their job is to predict the future and to help advise people on the kinds of decisions to make. And it just so happened that the two futurists the future forecasters who I talked to were also parents, one was a grandparent, and then one was a mom with a school aged kid. As we were talking, we were also lamenting how many global problems like climate have become very personal and proximate for these kids. They are directly impacted by public health issues, by political issues by environmental issues in ways that can feel crushing. And it means that they have to be able to see themselves as what I talked about in the book solutionaries, that they’re actually a part of being able to make change in what can feel like the intractable problems of their life. And we see this with any of our kids who have gone through cognitive behavioral therapy or exposure therapy, as well as like, we’re going to show up in these really uncomfortable moments. And we’re going to imagine a different outcome. And we’re going to do things make practices and headway into that. And so I actually think that there’s huge hope for our differently wired kids flourishing in this uncertain, volatile future because the world has kind of always felt a little bit uncertain and volatile to them and disrupted, they’re a little more adept in handling the disruption. So this future forecasting or the actual steps that futurists take, where they choose a problem or an idea, and then they imagined all of the possible scenarios that could happen, you know, imagining sort of these possible futures. So if you were thinking about In class, it could be what will schools look like in 2060? If you are thinking about your son or my boys, it could be, what is your life going to look like in 2040. And they imagine all of these different possibilities, and then begin to talk about the risks and opportunities and kind of what it would take to be there. It’s not to say sort of like meteorologists where the weather forecasts can always be wrong, that the forecast will be right. But the act of doing these scenarios is an incredible power builder. And it begins to expand their minds on what could be possible, and get them out of, again, when we think about neurodivergent. Kids, when we think about kids with mental health issues with attention differences, the sort of lock they can get in right, like I can see my older son’s face when he gets stuck and locked in somewhere. And this is a sequence of steps they can take to unlock themselves. And I think those of us who are kids don’t see how they fit in the world. And the future does feel really scary to also cultivate hope, and cultivate optimism, which is so key for them.

Debbie Reber  

Yes, absolutely. And I’m glad you brought up the idea of solutionary is that was in your chapter called being a force for good, which I think does help to cultivate that hope. And I just love that term. It was something I’d never heard about this idea that we can use this idea of our kids being solution ares to help them imagine and be a part of creating the future that they need.

Stephanie Krauss  

Yeah, I mean, I would say this, Debbie, and you know this from sort of following my journey, my boys have been directly impacted by some of the scariest things that we as parents worry about. One of them being the pandemic, which we all experience universally. But another in the last year being that my god child who has lived with us in the summers, and is very much a sibling to my boys, was shot and barely survived as a school shooting. And I think here was an experience, I talked about it in the book, here was an experience that the boys had been afraid of happening, a school shooting, they knew was a possibility. And then it happened. And then they had to go back to school, after Brian had barely survived this horrible tragedy. They had to return to school without any promise of their safety, which is something by the way, like another conversation that I continue to wrestle with and struggle with. And so this is a problem that is happening to them. It is a crushing problem. If kids do not feel like they have some level of agency and power and voice and choice in how they are living, to feel safe, to feel situated to feel successful, we are stripping away their ability to thrive, like one of the core indicators of thriving is feeling safe and supported. And so a part of being a force for good is knowing that this generation of kids in particular, has been slammed by really hard historic issues. And we’ve got to give them some sense of agency and control over things that can suffocate, and that they feel like they can find their way forward. And the part of that is through action and surface and service in community with other kids.

Debbie Reber  

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I do remember when that all unfolded? And what a horrible thing that Brian had to go through that your family had to go through that any kid who is impacted by violence in schools has to experience. It’s something we talk a lot about in our community, and what is the impact on our kids? So I like this kind of solutionary thinking, I like the idea of purpose, which is something that you talk a lot about in the book, both in terms of it being one of the essential needs for our kids, but also the importance of pursuing passion and pursuing purpose. Could you talk a little bit about that? How do you define purpose and how can we support our kids in identifying that are capitalizing on a purpose they may already have within them. 

Stephanie Krauss  

So I was really lucky to learn from a scholar at Stanford, Heather Malin, who has been researching passion and purpose with kids for a long time for a big portion of her career. And what I learned and what’s included in the book is that purpose feeling like you have purpose, as you mentioned, is fundamental to survival, it helps kids survive and thrive. Also this idea that, like, if something hard happens, that there is a purpose to it, that there’s a reason why I’m going through this tough thing. I might not know it right now. So it’s both like, do I feel like I have purpose in my life. And do I feel like there is purpose behind whatever is happening in my life. So we, we need that as grownups and our kids need that in order to make it. And in order to thrive, passion, we very often I think, as parents are like, let’s help find our kids passion. And kids still actually need passion to thrive, some kids will have it, you know, they are hyper focused on becoming an elite athlete, or being an artist or being a musician. And I think that comes with possible sacrifice. But we just need to know that our kids do not need to be passionate about something in order to thrive. And if they are, we support them, and we nurture them, and we give them the opportunity to kind of explore that interest. But what they do need, unequivocally is feeling like there’s a reason why they are here. And they are a part of something bigger. And if our kids do not have that experience, that is like a full stop, because it will prevent them from enjoying life. And so really figuring out what kinds of supports, and possibly what kinds of services they need, to kind of discover or plug in to the activities, the conversations and relationships that give them a sense of purpose is really important. I think for listeners who maybe are in communities that are like very high achieving, or like youth sports might be a really big deal. The other thing to understand is that for some kids purpose is being a good son, being a good brother helping provide for your family. And that that needs to actually be honored and named as enough and supported as enough.

Debbie Reber  

Yeah, it’s great. I’m just enjoying this conversation so much. It’s making me think about things in such a different way, and an important way. So I just really appreciate the thoughtfulness that you put into this book and the way that you look at the world, I really appreciate it and that you can translate that for the rest of us. It’s really a gift. So thank you, I want to touch upon one last chapter before we wrap up that kind of jumped out at me, you have a chapter called Embrace identities and cultures. And I mean, they’re all great, we could have done like a three hour episode, and we talked through all of them. But listeners, you have to read the book called childhood life. But I loved this section, you have called striving to be an identity safe person, you included a list of characteristics of Identity Safe adults. That’s the first time I saw this concept described in this way. Could you explain what an identity safe adult is? And how can we as parents and caregivers and teachers be that person? For children?

Stephanie Krauss  

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, credit for for this kind of created part of the book, talking about identity safe people really comes from going to colleagues, there’s a colleague, Laura Hernandez, from Learning Policy Institute in California, and then another colleague who’s a professor up in the Twin Cities, and I went to them and they have been thinking about this idea of what does it mean to be Identity Safe? So I wanted to take this question in a couple of different ways. One is back to like, we have a job to do that we are often not trained for. One of the things we all need to understand is as we are raising kids, the task of the tween and teen years, which I know Debbie, you’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the primary task for kids in that stretch of time, which is called adolescence is answering the question, Who am I? And where do I belong? And that is, by design. We are biologically wired to be exploring and answering that question as we move through those middle and high school years, which means identity development is going to happen and cannot be slowed or stopped down. Even if we’re struggling to keep up strong. blame to understand or maybe not even like agreeing with what’s happening. And so what I wanted to offer to folks was first and understanding that pulled away from often the politics that go around identity development, especially gender and sexual identity, to just situate us in, like the science of human development. And that forever, in this period of time childhood into adolescence into early adulthood, the process is to figure out who you are and where you belong. And it continues into early adulthood, and arguably, some of us are still asking that question, but like, It’s explosive during that time. 

And so our job is to be life saving, life extending and life giving, like, I’ll go back to that, which is when kids feel like they cannot show up as themselves. It is life threatening. It is so fundamental to the core of who they are, that as they are exploring, what does it mean for me to be this racial identity? or multiple racial identities? What does it mean to me, for me to be a part of the disability community? What does it mean for me to be gay, or am I bisexual, or to be female, or to be a more effeminate male, all of the sort of complexity there, they need a level of stability, and love and support and care and concern. And if we cannot provide that for any reason, we can’t be that identity safe person, then our job as a parent, is to make sure they have other adults who can provide potentially what we can’t provide in that moment, have we surrounded them with other identity safe people, but I think fundamentally, like adolescence lasts from age 10, or 11, onset of puberty all the way until your mid 20s. That is a lot of years of parenting. That is a long time. And so it is a part, I think we are morally and ethically obligated to really struggle with what it means to be safe, when it comes to these more either visible or invisible times of exploration and development for our kids. And also to recognize, and I talk about it in the book, that especially when it comes to sexual identity, that there are spaces of exploration with this generation that are actually different from previous generations. And so there is an educating ourselves and holding space for curiosity, and learning from our kids and listening to our kids. That’s imperative. Again, it doesn’t mean that you need to arrive at like a place of total agreement. But you do always need to be at a place of love, care and concern, and an openness to hold your kid. And to know that you’re you’re a safe place to land.

Debbie Reber  

So good. It’s such powerful work. I wish we could spend another hour diving into this. But I want to say thank you for writing this book. It’s really important. It is really the companion that I think that we need to we adults need to support this generation during this unusual challenging time. Before we say goodbye, is there anything that we didn’t touch upon that you would want to make sure my listeners take away from this conversation.

Stephanie Krauss  

Coming out of the pandemic, we know that the science says that kids are wired and rewired based on their environments and experiences. And so I just want to give you a place of encouragement, which is something I alluded to earlier, I actually think that our differently wired kids are made for this moment. And that there are real areas of strength and skill and resiliency and endurance that they have that position them not only to be okay, but to support other kids who might be struggling for the first time feeling like they’re sort of off center from what is normal or expected or typical. We’re a little bit in like this differently wired world with the whole generation. And so when I think about our kids, right, because it’s deeply personal for me too. I think about the like tips and tricks and tools that they have developed through their own struggling and their own suffering and the support that they have gotten from us, and how much that will serve them. And so the last thing I would just say is the goal for us needs to shift from performance and completion and success to how with happiness and wholeness like we want our kids not only to live their lives, but to love their lives. And that has got to be the pressing priority that we pursue, for them and for the other kids who come into our orbit. So beautiful.

Debbie Reber  

Thank you so much. Where can listeners connect with you? Where do you want people to go.

Stephanie Krauss  

So the easiest to spell option would be to just go to whole child whole life.com. What’s great about going to whole childhood life.com Is it will direct you to all the places to buy the book. And there are free resources there directly from the book. And you can sign up for weekly tips, weekly ish tips, I should say, on what kids need to thrive right now that are more in sync with the moment like back to school or holidays or whatever else. And then once people grabbed my last name, they can also go to Stephanie, Malia kraus.com, if they want to learn more about who I am, and get in contact,

Debbie Reber  

Awesome. Listeners, I’ll have links as always in the show notes page, including a link to our last conversation and to Stephanie’s book, making it as well as Whole Child, Whole Life. And I always take notes during these conversations. So all the resources and names that you dropped in this conversation, I’ll have links to those resources as well. So Stephanie, thank you so much. We stayed on a little extra long after some tech difficulties right away, which I just so appreciate. You’re just being present for this whole conversation. And thanks again for coming on the show today.

Stephanie Krauss  

What a pleasure to give back to the community in this way. Thank you for the service you provide for all of us. I’m so glad to have been here.